203 0 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Today we had twilight racing, The race started at 6:30, Seems reasonable.. It was only 3 legs ( Reaching legs by the way) And the race was over with in 25 minutes for us We thought the 3 legs were reasonable, At the start of the race we had 2-3kts of wind, Thought it was going to take for ever about 30seconds to go the wind picked up to about 10-12kts, and it also swung making it a tight reach there and back. With no race committee boat, another yacht was being used, so we only have windward/leeward courses, Fair enough, But they were really short courses. Sailing back to the marina was a better sail than we had had all day! Now Im not the type to hate on a boat club, and never will unless they personally screw me over, No hard feelings here guys But please do tell, What do you think is the minimum time for a race? please tell me if I have offended anyone... Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Current answer for Volvo In Port races is the length of the TV time slot + intro & exit. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Current answer for Volvo In Port races is the length of the TV time slot + intro & exit. Americas cup looks to be half a hour Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Current answer for Volvo In Port races is the length of the TV time slot + intro & exit. Americas cup looks to be half a hour Maybe I should be getting used to it Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If it makes you feel better we did one leg up wind against the tide in the ditch tonight, took 2 hours sailed back in the dark in the pissing rain. Your 25mins sounds pretty good! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Interesting question. I don't think there will be a single right answer. So can the question also be "when is a race too long?" In this instance it is worth explaining tahe whole situation. the WBC patrol boat is out of commission while it is undergoing significant repairs. When it became clear that we needed input from members to get it finished in time for racing to resume after the Christmas holidays, we sent an email around asking anyone who had raced with us in the past 5 years to help us. We got 2 responses, from people who always help. No offers of help from the regular racers. So the boat wasn't finished in time. We had two choices; cancel racing for the rest of summer or make do with volunteer boats. The first option was unpalatable to be honest. Again we asked for people to offer to do this. One response only. A yacht. So, limited speed to run around and set a full course. So we opted to set shorter courses utilizing an existing marker in order to make it easier on the boat owner who can only motor at less than half the speed of the patrol boat. So there's your background. The conditions changed, and under the circumstances, given the limited resources we can muster, what would you have us do? Because the options are: Make do until the patrol boat is finished Cancel racing until the patrol boat is finished Put together a team of volunteers and pitch in and help Just some thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Bogan 8 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sounds like the wind change at the start was the culprit anyway - shortening the race and turning it from a windward leeward into a reachathon. Not much you can do about that if there is no way to reset the course (which seems to be the case from AAs post. Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Coupla thoughts on what, by the look of things, is a bit of a one-off situation: a) if you finish a race early and feel there is a chance of going home unsatisfied, there is nothing preventing you from going for a blast after you cross the finish line, especially if you have a sail that you want to check out and didn't get to hoist during the race. I'm sure plenty of others have done that here in the sticks we have raced without a committee boat for a few years. Occasionally when the breeze has been up and down, we will agree on a scenario of "if there is enough breeze for the first boat reach mark X by a specific time, there will be an extra leg out to Y; otherwise it's straight home from X." There is always the potential for confusion in that approach but it's a small fleet and usually an element of follow-the-leader in effect. Of course it also works because we have a skippers meeting before each race rather than pre-designated courses - it is the kind of thing that can only be communicated face to face. Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Some times it's just not going to pan out for the RC. They could blow it up and signal a change of course to do more laps or if logistics permit, reset the course, but who's to say the wind won't just go back to 2-3kts and make the change look silly. To answer the question though which is a personal preference one, for twilights, my thinking is if the RC aims for the boats, mid fleet for each of the starts to take about 85-90 mins and the back boats no more than 120. A bit shorter start and end of summer when there's less light to play with and it's always nice if they lop 15 mins or so off that when the weathers miserable. Have to say, committees are getting much better at shortening courses when they're able, it was pretty much unseen in twilight racing 20 years ago. Don't always get it right but that's weather for you, as said, appreciated and a big improvement. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Worse still it could have been no wind and no race? Anything is better than nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You could always join the sailing committee and see the problems and then make your own decision binding on the rest of the fleet Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 or even better, we could race with gulf harbour Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 AA, I am not having a go at weiti, Or anyone here, Just clarifying that, I do enjoy racing at weiti, IN this case, as bogan said, the wind shift was the culprit here, The race would of been great if the wind had stayed light, And did not shift, But its sailing, and theres nothing we can do to stop it, J.Harkin, Im not sure.. I think once the patrol boat is finished racing will be magical again, and with W.T Coming, It will be even better You could always join the sailing committee and see the problems and then make your own decision binding on the rest of the fleet Too young to join i would think.. Interesting question. I don't think there will be a single right answer. So can the question also be "when is a race too long?" We had two choices; cancel racing for the rest of summer or make do with volunteer boats. The first option was unpalatable to be honest. Again we asked for people to offer to do this. One response only. A yacht. So, limited speed to run around and set a full course. So we opted to set shorter courses utilizing an existing marker in order to make it easier on the boat owner who can only motor at less than half the speed of the patrol boat. So there's your background. The conditions changed, and under the circumstances, given the limited resources we can muster, what would you have us do? Because the options are: Make do until the patrol boat is finished Cancel racing until the patrol boat is finished Put together a team of volunteers and pitch in and help Just some thoughts. Like i said before, I do not intend to have a go at any person or club, I was just wondering what some others thought about it, I do love racing at weiti, And it is a fabulous club, with a great atmosphere, As for the patrol boat, I would of worked on it, But i still have little experience in that trade Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Not too sure on the background here... But even before Weiti Patrol went out of action, there were noises being heard about courses being too short and fleets being too small. Lots of finger pointing at the issue of Gulf Harbour racing on the same night. The courses were shorter to accommodate the other club, and there were people whinging that last season they were able to race with both fleets on different nights. I understand Weiti has to organise their racing around the tides, but considering both clubs would benefit from having a larger fleet out there racing, and Weiti can't lay any marks any way... It sure would be nice to combine the two fleets and hand out a prize to the club that wins overall. I guess this has probably been discussed already with various committees, so there is probably a reason this hasn't been done... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It takes 1/2 an hour to an hour to set up a big boat for a race. It takes 25 minutes to de-rig it Sometimes we race for not much more than an hour on Wednesday nites. This is too short IMO committees should target 2 hours for a keel boat race. In dinghies we generally have 3 races of about 40 minutes per day (club) - at nationals might be more like an hour eaach race... That is about right (But us old farts get pretty knocked around in three races in one day in a big breeze) - not complaining just saying! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hey 203 I know you were't having a go, but I also understand the source of the question and how it may have percolated to the surface. It's just far too easy to think that the answer to an issue is someone elses deal. On Twilight races we aim for the slowest boat to finish in 1 1/2 hours - this was when we could lay our Olympic courses. This means that the last boat would finish by around 8 and the patrol boat will be in by 8.30. You also need to know that in summer the wind often crumps out around 8 and if we run it much longer than that, the slowest boats never finish and then we get it in the ear for having races too long. Wednesday night was a victim of circumstance and nothing more. We just don't have the means to change things at the moment. In the case of racing on the same night as Gulf Harbour (I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain this) The Weiti fleet is roughly 50% out of the marina at Gulf Harbour and 50% out of the river, which for the edification of those who aren't aware, is tidal, and has bar to get over, which for most yachts means the top half of the tide and some have an even smaller window that that. Therefore we are totally tied to the tides. We send our race schedule to Gulf harbour well in advance and they do their best to work with it to avoid conflict. The two clubs do try to work in with each other and to a certain extent we both succeed. However this year, it didn't pan out so well as they have ladies racing one Wednesday and their Twilight racing the next. There's plenty of water out there and plenty of room for two races to run concurrently. Our racing fleet numbers have declined, as have theirs, but what stops the two combining is that fundamentally the two clubs run different sorts of races. No criticism implied either way here. When WT gets back in the tide and the Baker brothers start racing Public Image, the Bump will be up against stiff competition. So roll on the winter series. But if you guys really want to be sure that the patrol boat is ready in time, come down to the club and volunteer to help! Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hey 203 I know you were't having a go, but I also understand the source of the question and how it may have percolated to the surface. It's just far too easy to think that the answer to an issue is someone elses deal. On Twilight races we aim for the slowest boat to finish in 1 1/2 hours - this was when we could lay our Olympic courses. This means that the last boat would finish by around 8 and the patrol boat will be in by 8.30. You also need to know that in summer the wind often crumps out around 8 and if we run it much longer than that, the slowest boats never finish and then we get it in the ear for having races too long. Wednesday night was a victim of circumstance and nothing more. We just don't have the means to change things at the moment. In the case of racing on the same night as Gulf Harbour (I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain this) The Weiti fleet is roughly 50% out of the marina at Gulf Harbour and 50% out of the river, which for the edification of those who aren't aware, is tidal, and has bar to get over, which for most yachts means the top half of the tide and some have an even smaller window that that. Therefore we are totally tied to the tides. We send our race schedule to Gulf harbour well in advance and they do their best to work with it to avoid conflict. The two clubs do try to work in with each other and to a certain extent we both succeed. However this year, it didn't pan out so well as they have ladies racing one Wednesday and their Twilight racing the next. There's plenty of water out there and plenty of room for two races to run concurrently. Our racing fleet numbers have declined, as have theirs, but what stops the two combining is that fundamentally the two clubs run different sorts of races. No criticism implied either way here. When WT gets back in the tide and the Baker brothers start racing Public Image, the Bump will be up against stiff competition. So roll on the winter series. But if you guys really want to be sure that the patrol boat is ready in time, come down to the club and volunteer to help! Thanks AA, I have heard the story about gulf harbour, but you made it very clear to me, so thanks Now I know what exactly is going on around here... WT Is due to be in for winter racing, Which will be awesome, has public image got a rig in yet ? STiff competition? Sweet, maybe we wont be the ones winning on line all the time hopefully we have similar numbers compared to last year, If so, It will be a great series How much is left to be done on the patrol boat? There has to be something i could do Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You weren't the ones winning on line all the time - we were! You were the first lead slinger quite often though. Give Geoff a call at the club and say you have a team of 5 from Bump n Grind lined up. He'll be delighted! There is no issue with or between Gulf Harbour and Weiti. We communicate regularly and we do our best to support each other. Reality is that the bulk of people join the club that provides what they want which is how it should be. Doomsayers might say there isn't room for both but they are wrong and ill informed. But the friendly rivalry for the waka is good fun! Link to post Share on other sites
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