Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Check the SA article on the home page and tell me what you think. I found this paragraph worrying The researchers don’t mince words. Their data show that “no other sport is seen as ‘exclusive’ as sailing, and the biggest difference to the top sports is that [sailing is the least] ‘accessible’ and ‘community involved.’” Most people reject exclusivity outright, and aspire to something that will be fun for all, and that matters to neighbors and friends. Beyond image, there are structural barriers to participation, so few get the chance to understand how sailing might do these things. The research shows that sailing can be too expensive for families, the focus on racing prevents new entrants, the time commitment is too severe, it’s hard to see where sailing can lead, first timers are much older than in other sports, and clubs often don’t help and sometimes hinder. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Its all true! It is expensive, and seen as exclusive and seems hard to get involved with. Some clubs do not help themselves. I see sailing as an addiction more than anythign else. I get wet, cold, yelled at, scared, poor and I still keep going back, and I love it. looking at it logically, why do I bother? Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 17 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I would expect the same results in NZ And lets be honest it is cheaper to buy a rugby ball and play on council subsidized fields than it is to run a keel boat Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I would largely agree with this article about it being exclusive and expensive as a kid to sail. I would however say New Zealand is slightly different as crew.org allows the average kiwi who cant afford to by a boat to go out on crews. No comment on boat clubs as i dont belong to one and never have. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I throught that this was proably the most helpful for guiding the way forward. ...the report recommends that clubs should make great sailing experiences their primary mission and goal and should be designed to welcome and not intimidate. The duty of club member-volunteers and staffs should be to answer questions and allay concerns, help people find rides, friends and mentors, make social connections, coordinate schedules, lowers costs, and learn to be safe. Squid - can you track down a link to the entire report? Link to post Share on other sites
Absolution 7 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Most people can't afford to own their own boat so that does exclude a lot of people unfortunately. IMHO: I think more shared ownership or club fleets like the MRXs would make a difference. If you can offer people a low(er) cost path to boat ownership while providing them with mentoring, experience, good one design racing and lots of fun then I'd expect participation would increase. In the US fleets like the Melges 20s and J/24s are growing rapidly as people turn their back on more expensive big boat racing. I think its inevitable that we will see growth in the sport boat / small keel boat sector simply because its more affordable. Shaw 650s and Open 8.5s probably make up 80% of the new boats launched in NZ in the past 5 years. Maybe a slight exaggeration but you get the point. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Why do you need to own a boat to participate in the sport of yachting? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 In the US fleets like the Melges 20s and J/24s are growing rapidly as people turn their back on more expensive big boat racing. I think its inevitable that we will see growth in the sport boat / small keel boat sector simply because its more affordable. Shaw 650s and Open 8.5s probably make up 80% of the new boats launched in NZ in the past 5 years. Maybe a slight exaggeration but you get the point. Amen. Not to mention Viper, Open 5.70s and i550s in the US too. This situation more or less underpins my request to Rob to design the Shaw 550 to be an easily managed and less of a family frightener sport boat . Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The perception of sailing being a rich-persons's hobby exists pretty much around the world. And a quick visit to any brokerage or swindlery will reinforce that view. But ironically instead of being rich because we sail many of us are not rich because we sail - due to cost of ownership! But ultimately I don't care what other people think. I stopped worrying about promoting the sport and protecting it's image. Because how does that help? All I want is a quiet life enjoying my sport. And being selfish it actually suits me better if more people decide to spend their time chasing a white spherical ball around a large green park because it leaves more space for me in the marinas and harbours and bays. If I bump into anyone interested in coming for a sail then I'll try to fit them in and hopefully they enjoy it. But that's where my concern ends. Time to stop worrying about sailing and just go sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hear hear AC. I agree. And the exact same argument applies to the Multi vs Mono argument. Trying to convince the majority that sailing lead free is the best, is a waste of time and effort, just get on with it and enjoy..... viva la difference. TB Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Depends if you consider your "sport" to be sitting alone in a quiet bay in your class orpahn or one design racing in a fleet of 20 boats I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolution 7 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Why do you need to own a boat to participate in the sport of yachting? You don't need to own a boat but some people want to and can't. My thought was more about building up accessible one design fleets as a method of bringing more people into the sport. I understand where AC is coming from but from a fleet racing point of view I think more boats = more fun. Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah I admit my perspective is heavily cruising-biaised whereas for racing if you want maximum turnout you probably need to select minimum cost boats. Unless you live in St Tropez or Dubai. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolution 7 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not to mention Viper, Open 5.70s and i550s in the US too. This situation more or less underpins my request to Rob to design the Shaw 550 to be an easily managed and less of a family frightener sport boat . The idea of the i550 is great and I think it could have some real potential in NZ. My only issue with it is that it is so damn ugly. I'm sure that Rob's 550 will turn out much nicer! Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Wonder what they're asking for this? Link to post Share on other sites
NevP 0 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I don't think the solution is to come up with more cost effective boats. I think a big part of the issue in sailing is the inherent divide between casual/recreational participation (cruising?) and competitive participation (racing) to get people involved/interested in the first place. My guess is that there are a lot of potential newcomers out there that would love to try sailing in a non-competitive relaxed way and aren't interested in the competitive side of things (at least initially). This seems to be echoed here Fitness (the outdoor experience) is a key motivator, but competition and achievement are rather uninteresting to this group. Most sports have a natural progression from casual to competitive participation. The casual participation, when there is no significant cost or commitment required, is where you attract the numbers. Like kicking a ball around with mates, cycling to school/work, and even with the likes of motor-sports (which could also be viewed as expensive/elitist) most of us drive on a daily basis. At each next level of commitment/cost there will be fewer move up to higher levels of competition until you have the fanatics at the top level of the sport. I agree with Bardy, that you don't need a boat to sail, but it is difficult to get that introductory foot in the door. I currently crew on a couple of different boats here in Welly and am having a blast but racing wasn't my original motivation. I just wanted to go sailing and I didn't really see any other way of getting out regularly without having my own boat. I've also attended practical sailing courses, chartered in The Sounds and crewed on a couple of deliveries. All of this required a significant level of confidence, commitment and/or cost. If we want participation to increase, somehow getting out on the water casually for newcomers has to be easier. I think if we want to increase participation numbers it has to be done by providing much more opportunity for casual/recreational sailing that is accessible to the masses. Probably not going to happen and I'm not sure that's what we want anyway because as AC pointed out a certain level of "elitism" keeps our cruising anchorages & marinas less crowded. Seems we want our cake (big fleets for racing) and eat it too (empty cruising grounds). Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Seems we want our cake (big fleets for racing) and eat it too (empty cruising grounds). Yup, thats what I want! Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 nah, that doesn't work because I don't care about having the cake (I don't race), I just want to eat it (i want unspoiled, beautiful, deserted cruising grounds). Link to post Share on other sites
NevP 0 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 nah, that doesn't work because I don't care about having the cake (I don't race), I just want to eat it (i want unspoiled, beautiful, deserted cruising grounds). Yep, so I guess there's really only a problem if you're focused on racing. So somehow all the speed freaks need to convince the short handed cruisers they need to fill their boats with keen newbies the next time they go for a sail if they want to remedy their perceived lack of competition. (insert Tui add) I'm sitting on the fence on this one as I have a foot in both camps but leaning towards the empty cruising grounds brigade if I had to make a choice. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 A lot of sailing clubs offer learn to sail programs. Buying a small boat for sailing is not expensive. There are plenty of inexpensive yachts of varying sizes for sale on trademe. Some, I admit do not sail too good. But a Hartley 16 does not cost much to keep, gets you on the water, and is between $1K and $3K Sailing clubs love to have new members, and I have felt very welcome at any sailing club that I have approached. AND, I'm a girl! (Or, at least, I was once.) Now if you want to get into serious racing, with carbon this and carbon that, live in a marina and sail more than one hull, then yes, it starts to get more expensive. Very expensive. But I do not see sailing as elitist. At least, not now that I sail. But don't tell the masses all that - SE Bay gets busy enough already with out more people out there on the water! Link to post Share on other sites
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