Marine rubbish in the Auckland area - what to do

[Murky 1]

If you have prepaid bags, then you need to have someone to ensure no non paid bag gets dumped.

Becomes a bit circular Wheels - if you have someone there, you don't need it to be prepaid.

 

I'd say it is inevitable that non-paid bags will be dumped. I would be more aiming to minimise that proportion by making it easy for a maximum of people to comply, and allowing for that inevitable proportion.

 

Otherwise you get the situation where a level of non-compliance gets interpreted as boaties being lazy and unwilling to co-operate and the whole system gets shut down.

[Fogg 427]

Which is why I said forget the whole idea of trying to make it pre-pay, it's an extra complication and distraction for everybody. In the grand scheme of the Auckland Council Budget we are talking a tiny extra amount, just add it to the land-based rubbish charges we already pay in our rates. On the basis that the vast majority of boaties dumping rubbish will also live ashore somewhere.

[wheels 543]

I agree. I think some things just need to be provided free, because in the greater scheme of things, they end up saving us all. I think it is clled common sense, but sadly bureaucrazy doesn't seem to understand common sense.

[Farrari 4]

I'd also agree. The charges apply to such a small minority of boat owners for what equates to maybe 4 months a year that the cost of administering the system could either result in exhoritant ticket prices in which case you will get low compliance or not making sufficient funds to cover the costs. Either way its a lose/lose situation.

 

Who is paying to collect from the current rubish barges?

Do we actually have an issue with unwanted waste dumpage?

 

I'm OK to pay my way as long as it is fair, equitable and easy to access. I'd hate to see a system put in place for the sake of it.

 

Dear I say it, if there was a licensing system enforced on boaties, this would be just another easy target.

[Murky 1]

Wouldn't be super-certain that the Auckland Council is entirely comfortable or in agreement with itself as to what is currently provided for by rates.

[Guest]

They roped us in, then took the money for our park and ride , raised by the old Rodney Council from Rodney ratepayers, and used it to build a railway station in Manukau. Grrrrrrrrrr.

 

Only one good thing came out of the amalgamation - the library.

[Guest]

They roped us in, then took the money for our park and ride , raised by the old Rodney Council from Rodney ratepayers, and used it to build a railway station in Manukau. Grrrrrrrrrr.

 

Only one good thing came out of the amalgamation - the library.

Rodney is lucky. The Shore was subsidising Auckland council for years and sadly still is.

 

Anywho - I've heard a nasty scary rumour concerning what appears to be another loonie AKl CC plan, more on that as I suss it deeper but I wonder if a Gulf rubbish collection system could be run for something between $135,000 and $270,000 per year? The same or possibly more funds every year on going at no cost to any ratepayers bar the initial one-off set-up cost (of sorts), that very much appears is to be going to be taken from the unsuspecting ratepayers anyway.

 

circular Wheels

I can assure you square ones aren't that flash

[lisae 0]

Monday morning to you all.

 

Thanks for all the comments.

 

In response to those that would rather see a 'free for all' approach - while this would certainly remove any problems at all with illegal dumping, and the need for some kind of payment system, the Council seems fixed on the idea of 'pay as you throw' for everybody. This means users on the water, as well. And so we have the task of trying to find a way that this approach could possibly work for marine users.

 

Interesting comments about not having cash. If there were enough publicity about the systems requiring a few coins, would it take long for people to work that one out?

 

Also wondering on thoughts re. location - we were thinking GB, Waiheke, and Kawau for a comprehensive system, with perhaps smaller backups elsewhere.

 

PS: Knot Me; I'd be very interested to know what you're talking about? I can tell you from experience that providing rubbish and recycling services to the Gulf Islands is a very expensive process - one that used to be subsidised by 'mainland' ratepayers in the Auckland City Council days.

[Fogg 427]

If you really are insistent on a payment approach - and it's obviously not practical to run a cashbox or eftpos terminal at point-of-dumping - then the backup option is via txt. The same way you can do txt for parking and also make donations e.g. the recent Westpac Chopper appeal.

 

But it's still gonna be an honesty system unless you police it with a person on site, which can't be practical, can it?

[lisae 0]

The costs of having someone onsite, even if only part-time and someone like a student on summer holidays, and the costs of managing illegally dumped rubbish will be interesting to compare - and we will be. I've heard that in some places, like an 'honesty box' system that Thames Coromandel used, around two thirds of the rubbish was dumped illegally. That's quite a bit.

 

by the way: me *does not equal* Council! don't shoot the messenger

[chic014 0]

Would a big metal funnel that you can throw coins into from a distance work better? Like you see on some toll roads?

[rigger 47]

Would a big metal funnel that you can throw coins into from a distance work better? Like you see on some toll roads?

 

Sorry - thread drift

But why do the folks running the northern toll road not have that?

 

 

 

Back on topic:

system where payment is made via coin, txt.... box opens - place rubbish in - close box - compactor activates to empty box - ready for next customer.... Would require power, web access......

[tuffyluffy 76]

 

by the way: me *does not equal* Council! don't shoot the messenger

 

Maybe you could kindly remind council that. . .

 

1. Most boaties are rate payers and while they're out on their boats, they arent putting rubbish on the curb on rubbish day.

 

2. When we fill our diesel/petrol tanks we are paying large amounts of roading taxes on the fuel for services we arent using. Perhaps the council should lobby central govt for a slice of the roading taxes and use this to fund the rubbish system.

[Fogg 427]

 

by the way: me *does not equal* Council! don't shoot the messenger

 

Maybe you could kindly remind council that. . .

 

1. Most boaties are rate payers and while they're out on their boats, they arent putting rubbish on the curb on rubbish day.

 

2. When we fill our diesel/petrol tanks we are paying large amounts of roading taxes on the fuel for services we arent using. Perhaps the council should lobby central govt for a slice of the roading taxes and use this to fund the rubbish system.

 

That's a VERY good point.

 

So why double-charge us for rubbish when we aren't doing it on the land?

 

Would be very interested to hear the Council response to that point, Lisa?

[Murky 1]

Happy to add my vote to AC's txt-a-dump concept - a brilliant suggestion which obviously came about to overcome the equivalent issue with parking meters. It also gets round the problem of needing to line up sufficient retail stockists on land and make sure people remember to buy before they go away.

 

It is really great to have you engaging with us to float these concepts, Lisa.

 

One thing I would add is that I personally have a reaction every time I see a council in particular use the phrase "illegal dumping".

 

I'm sure it is frustrating for them and no doubt there is the inevitable percentage who are to take advantage.

 

However if you consider that someone has collected their rubbish and hauled it round for a number of days (rather than throwing it over the side or lit a fire on-shore as used to be the case, certainly when I was a kid in the days before the rubbish barge in the BOI), then travelled some distance to the approved dumping location...it's not the so much the work of someone setting out to carry out a criminal act. Or certainly I can think of more rewarding crimes!

 

It would be great if councils could look at that and take the view that the system is actually 90% working and far better than the practices that it has replaced.

[lisae 0]

*So why double-charge us for rubbish when we aren't doing it on the land?*

 

The theory is that everyone, everywhere will be user-pays - so you'll be paying for it somewhere, no matter where or when you get rid of your rubbish.

[lisae 0]

However if you consider that someone has collected their rubbish and hauled it round for a number of days (rather than throwing it over the side or lit a fire on-shore as used to be the case, certainly when I was a kid in the days before the rubbish barge in the BOI), then travelled some distance to the approved dumping location...it's not the so much the work of someone setting out to carry out a criminal act. Or certainly I can think of more rewarding crimes!

 

yes, true, and I'll discuss this aspect when I go through the issues with the idea.

[lisae 0]

2. When we fill our diesel/petrol tanks we are paying large amounts of roading taxes on the fuel for services we arent using. Perhaps the council should lobby central govt for a slice of the roading taxes and use this to fund the rubbish system.

 

Hang on, you guys are yachties aren't you - what's the fuel for?!

[Fogg 427]

*So why double-charge us for rubbish when we aren't doing it on the land?*

 

The theory is that everyone, everywhere will be user-pays - so you'll be paying for it somewhere, no matter where or when you get rid of your rubbish.

 

I don't follow. I don't use pre-paid bin bags cos in my area we put out rubbish bins.

 

So I already pay for rubbish collection via my rates, don't I?

 

So if I go away for the weekend or a few days then all I'm doing is transferring my rubbish collection burden from land to sea i.e. instead of picking up all my rubbish from central Auckland I want the council to pick up some of it from Kawau, for example. In which case make a (small) reallocation of my existing payment from my rates to this marine collection?

[lisae 0]

Ailys: if you live in the new Auckland Council area, and are not yet on a user-pays rubbish collection, chances are you will be at some stage in the medium-term.

If you do live in the Auckland Council area, you might want to have a look at the draft Waste Management and Minimisation Plan - which is where all this is coming from. The consultation period closed a while back but you might still find it interesting.

http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/A ... /home.aspx