Tiller Pilot

[Megwyn 2]

Some information and advise needed from the knowledge gurus . . .

 

If a girl has a tiller steered 9m, just under 2000kg real yacht with Nexus wind instruments, what is the best tiller pilot to talk to the nexus system.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

M

[Guest]

A Megwin 1960

[Fogg 427]

I thought multis steered themselves? Cos with so little heel and all that, their waterline form is hardly gonna change, so no turning moment compared to a leaner that suddenly, errr, heels? So surely that's yet another benefit of a multi - you can offset the extra marina bills by saving on an autopilot. Cool.

[Absolution 7]

If you just want it to steer to a compass heading then you can use anything as it doesn't need any info from the instruments. Simrad TP22 or similar would probably be fine.

 

If you want to steer to a wind angle then you need to get the wind angle via NMEA. What model is your nexus gear? You need to have NX2 gear to get the required NMEA output.

[Megwyn 2]

Thanks Fineline. The nexus gear is - well, the manuals say it is a NX Start Pack 2, with wireless wind Transducer.

 

So is that the right gear to talk to one another? To do the NMEA thing?

 

LOl - yes AC - one would think so. However, if I leave the helm for a moment she tends to steer up into the wind, so I cannot abondon the helm for more than about 20 seconds. This precludes me doing much other than sitting on my nicely cushioned tush.

 

Offender - now you are getting offensive again! Wrong model sorry. The Megwyn model is not that old!

[Murky 1]

Thanks Fineline. The nexus gear is - well, the manuals say it is a NX Start Pack 2, with wireless wind Transducer.

 

So is that the right gear to talk to one another? To do the NMEA thing?

Best suggestion is that you PM Gappy on this site (if he doesn't respond to your post overnight). I have that same pack and bought it on the basis that it was extremely good value and the next step up to make it go further and do more was a fair bit more expensive. Gappy is with Kiwi Yachting and very knowledgeable and helpful about what can be done and at what cost.

 

The Nexus website hints that something may be on its way to fill the gap:

http://www.nexusmarine.se/products/mari ... alue-pack/

 

In the meantime, as Fineline points out, the convenience of basic autohelm functionality is available and at a cost of less than a grand - it is only if you want to set the autohelm to apparent wind or similar that you would need it to talk to the instruments.

[Absolution 7]

Thanks Fineline. The nexus gear is - well, the manuals say it is a NX Start Pack 2, with wireless wind Transducer.

 

So is that the right gear to talk to one another? To do the NMEA thing?

:

 

Unfortunately not. You will need to add the FDX server from the NX2 range to get an NMEA output. Just another thing to put on the Xmas wish list!

[Steve Pope 245]

The rounding up into the wind can be a good thing if one should have an inadvertant swim. I have a couple of bungys attached to a couple of small blocks with jammers that allows me to set the tiller well enough to allow me to go below to get a chart on new batteries for the hand held GPS or put a reef in etc.

[Absolution 7]

The Nexus website hints that something may be on its way to fill the gap:

http://www.nexusmarine.se/products/mari ... alue-pack/

 

It looks like you get some NMEA data out of the new compass instrument but not AWA or TWA that you would need to feed into a tillerpilot. Gappy will be able to confirm for you.

 

http://www.nexusmarine.se/products/mari ... nstrument/

[Guest]

I reckon the number of times you actually use the steer to wind function is so small it's hardly worth the extra trouble. Remember you really need a very balanced setup to avoid constant rounding up with even the strongest of pilots. May even need a reef when perhaps you wouldn't normally have one. Comfy though.

[Steve Pope 245]

A solution to not overloading the tiller pilot is to use it to steer a trim tab which then steers the rudder, no need to reef then. only useful to cruisers.

[Fogg 427]

I reckon the number of times you actually use the steer to wind function is so small it's hardly worth the extra trouble. Remember you really need a very balanced setup to avoid constant rounding up with even the strongest of pilots. May even need a reef when perhaps you wouldn't normally have one. Comfy though.

 

Agree, reckon I use steer-to-wind about 20% of the time max. And half of that is for hoisting the main. Otherwise a wind shift can put you on the rocks whilst you're busy preparing rums or summink else important.

[Grinna 2]

We use steer to wind angle quite a bit when sailing .... but then we've got a boat that's fairly easy to balance well, has a big rudder and is a big teddy bear to sail. Wind shifts trigger an alarm with our unit so that if there's a significant course change you know about it. It seems to be quite a smart and useful unit.

 

Sadly AC ... its Raymarine.

[RedLine 0]

Problem with using a NMEA brige from an NX system is that its slow. By the time the wind instrument sends the data, and then translates into NMEA, which is then read by the auto-pilot, it has a slow response. ON a multi-hull the apparent wind will change too quickly for this to work very well. If you want an auto-pilot to steer to apparent wind then its best the A/p can read the native wind data. For example a Raymarine Wind instrument and a Raymarine Tiller Pilot will work ok together.

 

IF you only want to steer to a simple compass heading then it wont matter.

 

Companies like NKE sell systems that respond very well, but cost big bucks! Most of the 6M Mini transat boats use these systems.

[Fogg 427]

We use steer to wind angle quite a bit when sailing .... but then we've got a boat that's fairly easy to balance well, has a big rudder and is a big teddy bear to sail. Wind shifts trigger an alarm with our unit so that if there's a significant course change you know about it. It seems to be quite a smart and useful unit.

 

Sadly AC ... its Raymarine.

 

Yeah I've got my Navman wind talking to my Raymarine AP using NMEA for the wind thingy. t mono speeds response time is less of an issue than multis. And any lag in the NMEA messaging is gonna be dwarfed by the inherent bad attitude of the Raymarine AP anyway.

[Megwyn 2]

Grinna, which one do you have?

 

Can they be programed to change heading after a certain period of time? i.e. can I tell it "head 235 then in 55 seconds head 180" ?

 

So, I gather from what I am hearing, is that a simple unit that you just tell it "go here", is probably the best for our wee beast? Considering that I have nexus and they don't speak the same language so I would require a translator.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

BTW - I wasn't thinking of using it when doing 16-19kt guys - just for around 8-12kt.

[TimB 7]

Redline is correct (again Stu). On a multi the tiller pilots don't work well going upwind. As the boat goes off the wind even a little bit it will acceleratev sufficiently so the apparent wind doesn't change at all. Then you finish up charging off at 16 knots beam on to the true wind but apparently close hauled (or so the pilot thinks). I believe some of the modern pilots used by the French 60ftrs can handle this effect but your bog standard one can't cope. Therefore the only option is to sail to a compass course and monitor things periodically.

[Megwyn 2]

Redline is correct (again Stu). On a multi the tiller pilots don't work well going upwind. As the boat goes off the wind even a little bit it will acceleratev sufficiently so the apparent wind doesn't change at all. Then you finish up charging off at 16 knots beam on to the true wind but apparently close hauled (or so the pilot thinks). I believe some of the modern pilots used by the French 60ftrs can handle this effect but your bog standard one can't cope. Therefore the only option is to sail to a compass course and monitor things periodically.

 

Thanks TimB - I had noticed this while sailing. While on a beam reach, she accelerates and the windex shows we are still close hauled. Isnt apparent wind great? But I can see that it could be a real bug bear for a tiller pilot.

 

Ok - simple compass bearings it is. Thanks.

[Fogg 427]

Can they be programed to change heading after a certain period of time? i.e. can I tell it "head 235 then in 55 seconds head 180" ?

 

This requires you to link the AP to a chartplotter with a route setup comprising multiple waypoints. The AP can be told to follow the route so it steers from WP to WP resulting in what you've described.

 

All very exciting but again very little practical use. Personally I prefer to make the change to the next WP as we arrive at an interim one. In theory you could set up a route for the AP to steer the boat back into the harbour and right to your berth. But of course nobody ever has.

[Atom Ant 0]

M, I have only ever had Raymarine and they have served me well. More by default than anything else as they were on the boats when I bought them. That being said, Lustys have always been great when it came to servicing & support. If I was buying a new tiller pilot, I would consider things such as, how fast it responds to a course change and also how quickly does it move. These are quite important especially if you are using it to steer the boat while dropping a sail while on a reach. I have found tiller pilots to be lacking when it comes to maintaining a heading in this situation. A small puff of wind, a quartering sea and the boat accelerates and changes direction very quickly. If the tiller pilot response isn't quick enough, the boat can just take off and on a mono it means a broach - for you - well you get the picture. Even while crawling along at 10 knots boat speed things happen very quickly. I accept that tiller pilots are a compromise and my above comments aren't aimed at shooting them down, they are great, I use(d) mine extensively and wouldn't be without one.