Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 OK, I had to raise this with you guys, even though I'm fairly confident I know what the response will be... But this really does anger me immensely. From the Volvo Ocean Race website: "Men's teams will be made up of eight sailing members plus a Media Crew Member, with all-women's teams allowed two extra crew members." My thoughts? Thank you, VOR, for mathematically calculating women to have 20% less worth than men. Discuss. Disclaimer: No, I didn't include the MCM in the above calculation, and I apologise now to the facetious among you who will no doubt find some way to calculate this slightly differently, coming up with a slightly different percentage, which totally misses the point of my argument. Link to post Share on other sites
OYSTR 1 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Asked the same thing here http://crew.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=20223&p=229782#p229782 Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I presume they don't have to take the extra 2. If it's really not an issue, sail with the same number. Easy. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Sorry, still catching up after 5 months in splendid isolation... That really does piss me off though. And it's not a question of the girls just taking the same number of crew as the boys MS. The damage has been done by the very suggestion that because women are weaker, we need an advantage. Like the VOR organisers are saying "there there girls, we know you're a bit sh*t, but its OK - we'll give you a special little extra hand so you won't embarrass yourselves completely." Bullshit. The best female sailors in the world get out there and compete with the boys at the same level. Ellen Macarthur, anyone? OK, so no-one really, honestly expects the all-girl crews to win against an equal crew of boys. But hell, give 'em a chance! They might surprise you! I seem to remember Dalton still owes the all-female crew from 02-03 a particularly painful forfeit... Sad, sad announcement for women sailors, and gender equality in general. Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I presume they don't have to take the extra 2. If it's really not an issue, sail with the same number. Easy. Yup Then we can see how big their balls are.... Seriously. Do it. or STFU Yes we know girlies can sail round the world. I don't want to. I'm a wuss. Yes, Ellen is a legend. So is Mike Sanderson's wife, whose name I'm ashamed to admit escapes me right now even tho I've met her and she's great So do it or STFU In the nicest possible way Link to post Share on other sites
Mothership 6 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 BB, I agree on some of those points. However - the fact is sailing at that level on boats that big is a physical sport, and males are stronger than females. Do females strategise better, prepare better, work better together? Maybe, but the easily quantifiable attributes definitely lean towards the males of the species. The organisers have made it easier for an all-female crew to win, which from a marketing perspective is an attractive proposition. If it's about pride and honour, sail with two less and make the organisers sit up and take notice. Best way really. Link to post Share on other sites
Zoe 8 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Put two big burly guys on a foredeck to haul in and flake a headsail in big seas, and two women, and see who gets it done faster, and who is more tired at the end of it. The two extras puts the girls on a level playing field, that is all. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Got to have someone to do the hair and nails???? Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 If it's about pride and honour, sail with two less and make the organisers sit up and take notice. Best way really. It is about pride and honour, and sooooo much more. And I truly, honestly hope they do. Or just bow out gracefully. No-one is going to respect an all-girl crew who wins this race unfairly. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So ... what happens if you have a mixed crew of males and females? Are you allowed an extra 2 crew members? Do the extras have to be female? I don't understand why the rules make allowances for crew's gender. Would there be allowances made for a crew made up solely of amputees? Just seems condescending to me. A crew is a crew and if your crew is going to struggle to wrestle a headsail on a foredeck then either find a better way to do it, or just cope. Next they'll be saying that the all female crews have to bake cakes during the race. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 That's an interesting suggestion Grinna... I think you're onto something! A combination of ocean racing and Masterchef... How about Volvo Ocean Cakes? Or My Galley Rules? Or Ready Steady Tack? Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 In all seriousness though, if your crew is going to struggle to wrestle a headsail on a foredeck ...I'd say you need to find different crew. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 And what if your crew is made up of Russian shot putters? Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I don't think I would want a Russian Shot putter on the bow. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 And what if your crew is made up of Russian shot putters? Then your only chance is to fire shot puts like cannon balls at the other boats and hope you take everyone else in the race out before the finish. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 346 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 BB, Have you sailed on a VO70? (or whatever the new farr shitter is called) Have you seen the guys that sail them? Have you seen how knackered they are at the end of a leg? I'm not sure how to say without sounding (in your mind) sexist, but women, cannot compete equally with men in such a physical race and class of boat. For sure, I see no reason women can't be tactically better, or trim better, or pick a better route, but on boats like those, women will be slower at manourveres, and get more tired, take longer to do things. Should women race men in 100m in the olympics? What about the marathon? Any other physical sport? Chess maybe. As for your coment about 'No one will repsect an all girl crew that wins unfairly'. That is utter rubbish. If there was a team of girls, with 2 extra and they won, that would be awesome. For them, for the sport. Don't get so offended and learn to accept reality. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Ah Clipper, I knew I could rely on you... BB, Have you sailed on a VO70? (or whatever the new farr shitter is called) - Completely irrelevant. Have you seen the guys that sail them? - Yes. No. Actually, I have ogled them. Does that count? Have you seen how knackered they are at the end of a leg? - Erh, duh. It's a tough competition. If you can't hack the pace, don't compete. Clipper, not all women are weedy and weak. It's not a pre-requisite for being female. If the female crews take longer, then they should place lower. Simple as that. By taking 2 extra crew, they are sailing a different race. Just like if a team took 2 extra sails, or had 2 extra feet of boat length. Not the same race. In other words, cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Have you seen the guys that sail them? - Yes. No. Actually, I have ogled them. Does that count? One bowman who is missing a bit of tooth out of his smile doesnt count It will be interesting to see if they get the extra two person advantage with the inport races. That will be a little unfair if they do, but I can see why on the long legs. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 346 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Ah Clipper, I knew I could rely on you... I tried to resist, but given I now ignore JP and OC, i hadn't had a go for a while. I thought I was pretty restrained really. If the female crews take longer, then they should place lower. Simple as that. By taking 2 extra crew, they are sailing a different race. This is actually a good point. I thought you were saying they COULD compete evenly? I now have a different understandig of what you are saying, but now wonder why they would bother racing if they have less chance of winning? I see it purely as the orgainsers trying to even out physical differences to make the race as 'fair' as it could be. To be viewed the same as adjustable wings on the 49er for diferent weights (although they might not do that anymore?) Just to be clear, not doubting women have skills, but am saying on average they are not as strong. Of course there are examples where that is not the case, but look at an average population of sailors and tell me what you see. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Just a thought - and I have no idea if it would float or not: How about rather than a number of crew rule, have a total weight of crew rule. Then, if you have a heap of lightweights you can have more crew, and if they are a group of forward props, then you have less? BB - my understanding is that testosterone makes muscles stronger. Therefore a male the same weight as a woman will have a strength advantage over her. But still, I see your point, and agree - if there is/are a women's team/s then why should they have more crew? M Link to post Share on other sites
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