DrWatson 381 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 SO, I have a choice of keel depths, and while it would be nice to cruise the canals of Europe, the performance loss will be dramatic. I know that it's always gonna be a compromise, but in reality, I'm not looking at cruising much in the Med, more like visiting, the lesser known spots. And lurking round the NZ/Aussie coast, some islands work etc. I notice the East cost of the US has some seriously shallow harbours... At what draft do you (and I mean you all out there) start to have problems? 2m? 2.4m? or anything over 1.5m? Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 We probably draw 400mm fully laden for cruising. Its not a problem... Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Wouldn't go less than 2 but over 2.5 is starting to be a problem from what I've seen around the pacific Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Mercenary was 2.1 metres, and never had an issue cruising. Realistically how often do you anchor in less water than that? And do you really cut it fine enough that the difference between 1.7 and 2.1 makes a difference? The only place we had an issue was low tide getting in the tamaki estuary! but that wasnt too bad and bigger boats still do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well. for a long time many designs were 6ft (1.8 m), I'd be reluctant to go much over 2m, unless of course it was a liftable keel! There are many places in the pacific and elsewhere where draft over 2m will be an issue. Not to say you can't do them, but more difficult. Oyster Island in Vanuatu, Munrovo Lagoon in the Solomons, Cooktown in Ausy, many anchorages in Ausy you'll be out further etc. There are heaps more! And yes, I do cut it to within 100mm sometimes, and My keel bulb has the scars to prove it!!! - cause I haven't fixed them yet, and the fwd sonar was smashed (by a Log). Some newer performance boats are starting to have lifting keels - a great Idea (I had a noelex 30, which had a good system). Seen 3m down, 1.5 up. Fantastic for cruising! Link to post Share on other sites
Island_Moose 0 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Nonsuch 30 Ultra came with two keep options, a 1.5m and a 1.2m shoal draft (ballast is identical, the shoal draft has a "foot" with a flat bottom). The only difference is about 3 degrees of pointing ability and somewhat greater leeway when hard on the wind. Drawing 1.2m allows me to anchor a LOT closer to the beach than most other boats, and has allowed me to get into Whangamata relatively-close to low-tide. I guess my point is that the performance issue is only an issue if you are racing, or if you like pounding into the wind, the rest of the time shallower is better. Link to post Share on other sites
Kestrahl 6 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 We draw 1.8 and generally don't have any problems.. When you start getting above 2.5 then it gets to be a real pain from talking to other people, but they still manage Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Go for the better sailing option Doc! Who buys a car for its parking ability? Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 381 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 It seems then that aside from being denied river access, 2.2m would be mostly passable for anchoring, except in all the nice places that IT mentions. A lifting keel would of course be the ultimate answer, but we’re not so keen on having too many move-able underwater parts or what amount to potential hull breech areas. Anything that can move under the water is a point for reliability issues IMHO. A two piece keel might be a consideration, whereby the bottom half is removed for river/canal work… But it would require hauling, and then adequate fixing, as well as a stowage place for what would be a 1.5 ton bulb when cruising rivers (or trucking…). How much righting moment do you really need if you've got the mast on the deck to cruise canals for 3 months? Leeway difference (and righting moment) between 2.2m and 1.8m, or worse 1.6m, would be pretty large I imagine. Pointing might be helped with a trim tab but then we have the extra moving appendage/reliability issue. Wings? Canards? Forward un-shippable rudder? Pointing 3° higher will make quite a difference over 100 miles, and will almost always win you that race… I know there is no free lunch here, but doesn't stop me wanting one. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me. Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 381 Posted October 24, 2013 Author Share Posted October 24, 2013 Concerned your choice might conflict with your mantra? We all invoke the 5th amendment sometimes... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Exactly, I love Bolgers AS29, but look what I bought instead. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,239 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 DrW, a lifting keel, like the noelex one, does not compromise watertight integrity. it is in a centre case that runs right up through the deck, and the keel is lifted vertically. if the hydraulics fail, the keel won't be able to be raised, that's all. its locked down with a grid pin, which is capable of supporting the weight of the boat, so with the keel down its effectively a fixed keel boat. the Elliot tourers with lifting keels used a similar system I believe, as did Bruno Trouble's Wanaka. its a proven system that works well, but must be engineered into the boat.... Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 A large percentage of the yachts in WA use this system too. Reducing draught from 2.8m to around 2.0 is common and necessary because many (most) of the marinas are quite shallow. TB Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Found one for sale http://simplysailingonline.com/index.php?page=ss182 Link to post Share on other sites
benny14 6 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Are you intending on cruising Asia Dr W? Have just done a week bareboat charter from Phuket on a bendy boat 40, draft approximately 2.5m... Was almost always ok apart from one or two places, had it been 1.8m it would have been a bit more comfortable... This was mostly for passage making between a few islands where you'd have to take the long way around, anchorages were ok(well all the ones we came across anyway) but it did mean anchoring quite far out at times... Link to post Share on other sites
AJ Oliver 154 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Parts of the U.S. east coast are so shallow that folks sail these spritsail skiffs (below), which are said (but not by me) to be able to sail in 20 cm (eight inches) of water. They are a lot of fun, but not your coastal or ocean cruiser. If I were buying a bigger boat I'd consider a shoal draft keel. On thirty footers, some draw not much over a meter with not a huge loss of performance. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 0787797746 Link to post Share on other sites
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