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Actually the last few negative post are completely out of line.

GrantMC - the reason the Yacht Register is not completely up to date is because "we yachties" don't assist YNZ in doing so. But I suppose you expect them to spend hours chasing up discourteous self-centred lazy arsed yachtsman. To think they don't care is ridiculous - they provide this service as a courtesy to us - not to give themselves something to do.

Harrytom - A $55 one time only fee to make a change to the register would barely cover costs and can hardly be described as grabbing money. To think otherwise is irrational.

 

NZGrant - to infer that YNZ frontline staff are unhelpful is also completely out of line. I deal with the. Every year as part of the Coastal and I can tell you from first hand experience that they actually do go out of their way to assist discourteous self-centred lazy arsed yachtsman who wait till the week of the race to apply for documentation.

 

I have no other affiliation to YNZ than anyone else on this forum - 3 affiliated club memberships and the aforementioned liaison.

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Why should I pay to fix their error??

scotte,so your affiliated to 3 clubs,that's nice,so your happy to pay for 3 lots of fees? and before you or anyone says its too hard to identify which club you pay your fee too its not. When I had 2 club fees I just deducted the levy from 1 club saying it has been paid through club 2,never had a problem

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Agreed Scottie, sounds like the worst get rich scheme ever to maintain a database of yachts for grumpy old curmudgeons.

 

It is entirely possible that someone changed the name of the boat in the register between 1976 and today, either way if a $55 one off fee is going to blow the budget maybe boat ownership isn't for you.

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no problem paying the fee Wheels,just a principle and it is not the first and certainly wont be the last time it happens,be great if registration proved legal ownership but it does not. Which begs a question how do you prove you own your vessel?

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I've sent forms to YNZ who have then changed the info and loaded into databases or simply loaded it wrong. The info is still wrong today.

 

sh*t happens.

 

 Which begs a question how do you prove you own your vessel?

Have a long established paper trail of it changing hands when for how much i.e receipts or bills of sale my work.

Register it as a ship and in the process you have to tell them, sometimes prove, who owns all 64ths of it. There are 64 shares in every ship, some own one or 2 shares or you can own them all. The Rego papers are technically the only form of ownership papers.... or were. After having a suss the other month about the yacht Rego scam the above may now only apply to Part A type Regos, i./e commercial shipping, not the Part B used by most recreational boats. Part B now only seems to be a mechanism to recover some of the tax cuts from a few years back from the better off.

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OK, so what about registration under part A. I know several yachts registered in Part A, and it does not expire. Ever, as far as I can tell?

IT I think there's been topic creep. The original posts were all about registration of a boat for offshore. Ie the Maritime NZ register. But it's changed to the register run by Yachting NZ. And as you know the two registers are quite independent. 

 

In respect to the rather argumentative postings concerning the YNZ register, YNZ service etc, I wonder if perhaps it should be a separate topic?  

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Part "B" is the same as car rego, it doesn't imply or confer ownership to the holder. As K/me says the only way is to have a paper trail going back as far as possible. I expect that most overseas bureaucrats will accept the NZ part "B" certificate as proof of ownership, because they are not aware that it doesn't!

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A $55 one time only fee to make a change to the register would barely cover costs and can hardly be described as grabbing money. To think otherwise is irrational.

Perhaps ScottiE but perhaps not. 

If the seller and buyer register separately (the normal process), then they each pay $55.

 

But the above charges are only relevant if the boat is already registered with YNZ.

 

If the boat isn't already  registered then the standard fee is $365. For those requiring special number, ie classic yachts using say the E series then the fee is $620. It can get even worse for a trailer sailor.

 

I was told by a YNZ staffer that the reason the YNZ register is such a mess is because about 11-12 years ago YNZ lost the registration database and had no backup.

 

I really hope that no one would be ill informed as to rely on the YNZ register as proof of ownership. It's as useless as tits on the proverbial bull.

 

No one has been knocking YNZ staff; I'm sure they're trying their best. It's a senior management issue that hasn't been managed in the last 10-11 years. The sad thing is that YNZ state: 

Emergency: Registration is strongly encouraged for recreational and racing boats for safety and security reasons, enabling rapid tracing of a boat in the event of theft, mishap or more serious maritime emergencies.  An alarming number of registered boats do not have current owner details, leaving Yachting New Zealand and rescue authorities helpless in the event of an emergency. We request all boat owners keep Yachting New Zealand informed of any changes.

 

If YNZ believed their own words they would, at the management level, make some  decisions, and make their register a priority. I just can't imagine if Coastguard, Police, MSA, or  RCC etc relied on the YNZ register what the results would be.

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Part "B" is the same as car rego, it doesn't imply or confer ownership to the holder. As K/me says the only way is to have a paper trail going back as far as possible. I expect that most overseas bureaucrats will accept the NZ part "B" certificate as proof of ownership, because they are not aware that it doesn't!

For proof of ownership of any asset in NZ, isn't our only option the Personal Property Securities Register

Certainly that's what the banks and finance companies use.

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Part "B" is the same as car rego, it doesn't imply or confer ownership to the holder. As K/me says the only way is to have a paper trail going back as far as possible. I expect that most overseas bureaucrats will accept the NZ part "B" certificate as proof of ownership, because they are not aware that it doesn't!

From what I remember from my suss I think that's quite correct. Part B is just another departure tax and bugger all else. Part A is the real Rego that has actual powers under international law, proving ownership being one.

 

I'd like to see YNZ advocate for yachties and ask about that bullshit scam. But as MNZ and YNZ are part of the same cabal suspect we'll see me as the next Sports Illustrated swimsuit model before questions are even considered.

 

The PPS doesn't imply ownership. That's just a system to protect business, mainly lenders.

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I know it is easy enough to register a yacht offshore but looking at the Ship Registration Act 1992 I was wondering what is the situation when a New Zealand citizen or resident owns a foreign registered yacht and wishes to depart New Zealand waters on it?

 

 

Registration.png

Registration_2.png

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A NZer can own ships registered in other countries and come and go without hindrance.

 

Being a NZ registered ship basically mean you have just given the Government another $1000 to waste but bugger all else.  You can register your boat in Nigeria, or any other commonwealth country, and have the same benefits of NZ registration.

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Pity NZ doesn't copy Australia on this, a one-off fee of $1,544 valid until a change of ownership and it's a register of title as well plus no Cat 1. They also offer a temporary pass at $333 one-way, transfer of ownership is $444 and a replacement certificate is $222. Doesn't make NZ quite so attractive.

 

Anyone know what a tonnage survey would cost in NZ?

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All to avoid Cat 1?

 

IMO Cat 1 is like a WOF for your boat. The standards and regs come from the sum of the things learnt from issues in the past, and from many more sea miles than any of us have individually.

 

The only real issue I have with our Cat 1 system is that it is too far behind current technology. Like LED flares, modern construction, cordage, anchors,  as well as electronics etc.

 

In my experience, the inspectors (bar one) were very reasonable, and would make allowances outside the letter of the rules if you had good reasons for what you had, or why the boat was like it was. Many people have been frightened off even discussing requirements with local inspectors before repeating rumor and innuendo, and thereby propagating  inaccurate info.  My advice is, if you have a boat and are considering Cat 1, talk to your local inspector early, and get him involved. You will find it is not as bad as many make out. If you find you have an issue with one, try a different inspector.

 

Leaving and returning to NZ is the highest risk passage that many (most?) cruisers make - at least those who come to, and leave from NZ.

 

If you boat or yourself are not up to the Cat 1 standard, should you be going??

 

Oh, and finally, if your the skipper of an offshore registered boat, and you return here, Customs will want written proof of the GST status of the vessel, or you will be required to pay GST on entry to NZ.

I agree totally agree , I suppose you can get an unreasonable inspector , that's always a risk. On the other hand my wife's uncle did a 7 year circumnavigation in a 31 ft boat and spent a lot of time in the high latitudes. He did Cat 1 inspections for a few years, afterwards and you could not have a more experienced and reasonable person for that purpose. 

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Personally, it won't be about avoiding Cat 1 it will be avoiding the ongoing costs and regulations. I intend to have an inspector give us a Cat 1 look over and comply with cat 1 standards as they are good ideas however the limited duration and repeated nature of them makes me want to bypass it all.

 

My better half crewed to Fiji in May and she counted at least 6 boats that departed solely because their Cat 1 was going to expire. May had a pretty long wait between windows and this created pressure to depart before the cat 1 expired, They left and the ones she caught up with in the islands all said it was a horrible passage but not worth the $600+

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