Guest 000 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 What's with this growing prevalence with some boating people to fly a pirate flag? I've had a bit to do with pirates in the Malacca Straits and I assure you they are not nice people. Presumably they wouldn't wear a T-shirt emblazoned with 'I'm a thieving murdering child molesting rapist,' so why fly a flag that expresses the same sentiments? Since we are all agonising over a new national flag, really wanting it to accurately portray who we are as a people, flying a pirate flag seems decidedly odd to me. Unless of course those who do fly a pirate flag are imbued with the very qualities the flag suggests? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yep, a bit of an issue for me as well. I can assure anyone interested that if you have had anything at all to do with REAL pirates, the jolly roger (skull and cross bones) is a bit offensive. I have to remind myself that the people flying them know no better.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 awful lot of youth fashion with skulls kind of like kids fascination with dinosaurs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'd suggest you have a very good life with very few worries if the harmless flying of a flag like this in NZ is a problem for you..............relax people. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El Toro 97 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Guess I wont be reading me kids Peter Pan anymore... I honestly don't know whether to laugh, rant or cry at this thread I think you both need to get a grip! Rant over. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hehe.., thought it might stir things up a bit. Would a black ISIS flag at the spreaders be acceptable? I quite fancy a bit of beheading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Flags? Anthems? It's all absurd. Here's a great song to chill by. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The Movie, Pirates of the Caribean has made the idea of being a Pirate as someone that is a free spirit and slightly rebellious toward the rules. Talk like a Pirate day only helps to make the term Pirate a bit of fun too. The entire notion of a Pirate to most, is from a time long ago. No one here in little ole NZ ever associates Pirates with the real McCoy Pirates of Mellaca sts, Somalia and elsewhere. And to be honest, although it is still Piracy, these modern day Pirates don't look anything like the kind from those days of old and thus I think that is yet another reason why they don't associate the two. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So whom would you behead Chrisc?? Apart from people flying pirate flags.......................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ketchup Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My pet hate is people that hate pets. Do we still take pirates flags seriously? Surely its a great thing!...as it identifies the idiots in our society. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So whom would you behead Chrisc?? Apart from people flying pirate flags.......................... So whom would you behead Chrisc?? Apart from people flying pirate flags.......................... Well, my boss has been irritating me a little.. Should I behead him, or make him walk the plank? Same outcome - but is one more acceptable than the other because its done under a different flag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Make him walk the plank Chrisc - I'd pay to see that. Not that I know him, I'd just like to see it. Buy the plank from Mitre 10 and you could fly their flag? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BNG 44 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 What's with this growing prevalence with some boating people to fly a pirate flag? I've had a bit to do with pirates in the Malacca Straits and I assure you they are not nice people. Do the Pirates in the Malacca Straights even go around flying a skull and crossbones these days? Their tactics have changed with the advent of 250hp Yamaha outboards and radar etc. and most real pirates don't run around advertising it... We fly it from time to time when there are small kids on board and they get a kick out of it. For the annual boys Barrier fishing week we don't bother, we all wear camo, shoot clays from the foredeck in the mornings, drink a lot from lunchtime and that generally keeps most people away. Would the addition of a pirate flag be additionally intimidating...I think not, it kinda lacks credibility these days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You are quite right, no one flies the flag in anger these days. My initial post was a little tongue in cheek and I confess to an ulterior motive for it, but, I have a strong dislike for the pirate flag for the reasons stated in my OP. I find the flag to be offensive and intimidating which is of course exactly what it was designed to be. If you are a bunch of seafaring cutthroats about to lay siege to another vessel then you want an emblem that engenders terror in your victim. A flag with a couple of harp playing cherubs on it just won't do. I think Pork Chop is a little ingenuous with his Peter Pan analogy. I enjoy a good detective/murder novel but that doesn't mean I want a tear tattooed on my cheek. If the symbolism behind a flag means nothing then I pose again my (unanswered) question - since both flags are symbolic of murder, mayhem and avarice, is it OK to fly the ISIS flag from the spreaders instead of the Jolly Roger if you should unnaccountably feel like it? If not, why not? And what about the swastika? This symbol has been known and loved for millennia and is synonymous with good fortune or well being. Prior to being hijacked by the Nazis for a few brief years it was revered by all cultures as a good and positive emblem. Now there's a good flag to fly, but I bet you wouldn't.. So, clearly flag symbolism is alive and well, but apparently acceptable in one flag but not in others. Enlighten me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Just the sort of responses I expected I guess. No. the pirates I have encountered did not fly flags, and pretended to be fishermen as long as possible. Pretty much the same as in the old time displaying false colours until the last moment before conflict. I agree with Chris C. If the jolly roger is not offensive, then why not ISIS/ISIL or the swastika? They are just flags as well... But I bet you would get a response if you flew one! - even if YOU think it's just a joke, others may take offense. I also agree that most people flying them (Jolly Rogers) have not really stopped to think about what it meant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 What I've noticed is that often pirate flags are accompanied by lion red flags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 What I've noticed is that often pirate flags are accompanied by lion red flags. I guess that really shows their intellect !! I'm off to get the boat ready for the long weekend... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 000 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Quite right! As I mentioned earlier the swastika is a symbol of well being and good intent, and I look forward to seeing it fluttering at your masthead. I don't like the pirate flag, and that is my prerogative. You don't like the current crop of crappy carpenters pencils, and that's your perogative. I agree with that too, but solved that issue ( for me anyway) some time ago. And, of course people can fly whatever flag they wish. I am trying to understand the rationale behind Jolly Roger vs Isil flags. OK vs not OK, otherwise known as a required paper, The Differentiation of Ancient Symbolism in the Modern World, otherwise known as an overdue assignment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 That flag does look a bit homemade to me, the swasti being a strong hindu symbol probably goes to the centre of K/me's life, his Wa! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well actually if we want to get to the nity grity of flags, origins, meanings and history etc etc.Firstly, did you guys know that the Sea Shepherds flag is modeled on the Jolly Rodger.The old days of Piracy was changed with Stevenson's 1883 story, Treasure Island. Gilbert and Sullivan made pirates comedic characters, with their Musical The Pirates of Penzance and ever since then, pirates sporting the Jolly Roger flag were often depicted as cartoon'ish, silly characters. JM Barrie wrote a story called "Peter and Wendy", which was were the story of Peter Pan came from. The Pirate Ship in that story was called, "Jolly Rodger". Technically, the Jolly Rodger Flag is NOT the Skull and Crossbones. Jolly Rodger did not come about till the 1720's when one particular Pirate Cpt flew a Flag with a Skeleton holding a sword peercing a heart. The crew named the Skeleton "Jolly Rodger". But even Jolly Rodger is a possible mix of History even before the 1720's. In 1703, John Quelch flew a flag with a symbol known as Ole Jack, which referred to the Devil. Earlier in 1694, the French had a Red flag called Jollie Ruge, which translates as Jolly Red. It's thought the name Jolly Rodger was morphed from those two.An important point is that the Pirate Flag or Flags, as there were 16 different flags, each with very different symbols, were tied to a time in History, called the "Golden age of Piracy". Something that no longer exists. They have no relation to anything modern day. There were also Red backed flags.The Black background is thought to have originated from Babary Pirates, whom were Muslim. But very early Muslim flags were Green. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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