Mediterranean/Greek style cruising. Are we in NZ missing out?

[DrWatson 382]

Not saying I think we should flood our waters with charter fleets.

But, the Med. style cruising, where you sail for a day, moor or anchor in a bay (or a small harbour) and go ashore to the local taberna for a damn fine meal and a glass of plonk certainly has its appeal. Place I went to on Kythnos, Greece, during the high season - tiny bay with about 15 houses, likely an hour's drive over a bumpy arse road from the other side of the island (ok i checked on google and it's more like 20 min), and getting perhaps 3 boats a night, supported two Taberna, one of which served some of the best food I've ever ordered (one of my top 5 places globally).

Can anyone recommend anchorages/places where you can actually do this in NZ? Seems that for the most part, you might if you're lucky get a burger and some fries at the local (club), but there's realistically zero infrastructure to support this kind of economy/activity. You only want fries and burgers for a few nights out of the total...

Or is it simply that when we go cruising we want to stay the hell away from everyone, and we're already so damn poor from paying marina fees we've got nothing left to spend on a meal?

Anyone think there might be space for this kind of thing in the NZ market? (or want it?) IS there an opportunity to do this in NZ? Mostly our good restaurants are friggin miles from the water...

Picture this, you pull into Waiheke, Russel, Fitzroy, or Cavalis, or wherever, anchor or pick up a mooring owned by a restaurant on shore. Call them on the VHF or cell and they come out and pick you up in their rib, dropping you at the shore/wharf, you walk the xx meters to the restaurant, enjoy a great meal, and get dropped back to your boat at the end of it. Staying on the mooring for free because you ate at the restaurant. There's probably about a bazillion regulatory issues... but would anyone else be into it? 

 

 

[raz88 97]

Marlborough sounds. Lochmara, furneax, punga Lodges all do this. 

[darkside 69]

Yep and Kingfish Lodge in Whangaroa did as well. Lots more opportunities though. I'm in Kaiarara Bay Fitzroy as I write this and the lodge there could do this easily. The lodge on Kaikoura Island used to offer meals but couldn't make a go of it.

While we have a lot of boats we also have miles of coastline so perhaps not the density of punters to make it work.The small tides in the Med make it easier there plus the very settled weather in season. Also imagine trying to get a consent for a few moorings in front of your restaurant here......

As an aside we had a meal at a waterfront place in Bequia and the whole operation was an Italian family. When winter came there they locked up their place in Italy and followed the season to the Caribbean. 

[DrWatson 382]

Yeah, I guess you need a min number of boats each night, and the charters make it easier to get those numbers. 

Woulda thought that in the summer there’d be plenty of boats at the barrier to make it work. 

Kawau would also work. 

Could buy an old ferry cat and run a restaurant out of that in Izzy bay occasionally... 

[Black Panther 1,776]

I thought a rib fill of ice cream in the BoI over summer would be a good business. 

[darkside 69]

At Porquerolles off Hyeres there was a bloke in a boat selling rotisserie chooks and he was doing a fine trade

[raz88 97]

Kawau boating club, man o war winery, the various eateries at oneroa/onetangi are also all places you can go in your boat, anchor, and take your own dinghy in for a feed and a drink or two.

Not exactly like the experience in the original post (or the Marlborough sounds) with mooring and shuttling in and out included, but not miles away either. 

[raz88 97]

1 hour ago, DrWatson said:

Yeah, I guess you need a min number of boats each night, and the charters make it easier to get those numbers. 

True, I believe the ones I mentioned in the sounds close over the winter months, I guess due to lack of volume. 

[Black Panther 1,776]

Slightly off topic but we used to eat out 2 or 3 times a week. Nowadays once or twice a month.

[Steve Pope 255]

10 hours ago, DrWatson said:

Not saying I think we should flood our waters with charter fleets.

But, the Med. style cruising, where you sail for a day, moor or anchor in a bay (or a small harbour) and go ashore to the local taberna for a damn fine meal and a glass of plonk certainly has its appeal. Place I went to on Kythnos, Greece, during the high season - tiny bay with about 15 houses, likely an hour's drive over a bumpy arse road from the other side of the island (ok i checked on google and it's more like 20 min), and getting perhaps 3 boats a night, supported two Taberna, one of which served some of the best food I've ever ordered (one of my top 5 places globally).

Can anyone recommend anchorages/places where you can actually do this in NZ? Seems that for the most part, you might if you're lucky get a burger and some fries at the local (club), but there's realistically zero infrastructure to support this kind of economy/activity. You only want fries and burgers for a few nights out of the total...

Or is it simply that when we go cruising we want to stay the hell away from everyone, and we're already so damn poor from paying marina fees we've got nothing left to spend on a meal?

Anyone think there might be space for this kind of thing in the NZ market? (or want it?) IS there an opportunity to do this in NZ? Mostly our good restaurants are friggin miles from the water...

Picture this, you pull into Waiheke, Russel, Fitzroy, or Cavalis, or wherever, anchor or pick up a mooring owned by a restaurant on shore. Call them on the VHF or cell and they come out and pick you up in their rib, dropping you at the shore/wharf, you walk the xx meters to the restaurant, enjoy a great meal, and get dropped back to your boat at the end of it. Staying on the mooring for free because you ate at the restaurant. There's probably about a bazillion regulatory issues... but would anyone else be into it? 

 

 

I think you have to understand Greek culture, Greeks tend to promenade in the evening, often ending up at a / the local Taverna for a late meal around 9 / 10 o/clock. During the day the same Taverna feeds locals / workers with very reasonably priced tucker. No noveau quisine. Would be hard to find in NZ as most restaurants want to cater to the upper end of society. Ie those with lots of dough or expense accounts. 
NZ is in reality a low wage economy that would do well with copying the Greek way, just need a couple of million Greeks.

 

[DrWatson 382]

11 hours ago, Black Panther said:

I thought a rib fill of ice cream in the BoI over summer would be a good business. 

If in a couple years you see a Pogo called Firefly in your bay with a flag saying "Flat Whites", you'll know to pop over in the morning...

7 hours ago, Steve Pope said:

I think you have to understand Greek culture, Greeks tend to promenade in the evening, often ending up at a / the local Taverna for a late meal around 9 / 10 o/clock. During the day the same Taverna feeds locals / workers with very reasonably priced tucker. No noveau quisine. Would be hard to find in NZ as most restaurants want to cater to the upper end of society. Ie those with lots of dough or expense accounts. 
NZ is in reality a low wage economy that would do well with copying the Greek way, just need a couple of million Greeks.

 

Yeah I think it's a combination of a lot of factors, a number of which you list here, along with weather (as Darkside mentioned).

In the Med it's HOT, and it stays that way late into the evening - meals are eaten late, because it's simply too hot to have a decent meal at 18-20.
The weather is pretty settled over the summer. There is the Meltimi, but it's all wind no rain, and it comes from one Quadrant - predictable, the odd Medicane, and y'all better hunker down.  In NZ, as soon as it gets to 7-8pm it gets cold (relatively speaking; What's it like in the Sounds?) so we don't all hangout etc. until later in the evening.

NZ is, as you say, a low wage place, and the restaurants are high price, not catering to a reasonable lunch set, etc. In the evening, your options are takeaways or a restaurant most can't afford. 

The place I reference in Greece charged us €69 for a 14 course feast (incl. wine) for 5 adults. We were horrified and tipped accordingly, but of course the locals have bugger all cash compared to the middle class sailing guests from Germany. Here in Zurich, Switzerland I can pay 22 bucks for a 3 course sit down lunch at a reasonable restuarant; Salad and bread, Saltimbocca mit spuds, + desert - it's very common to go out to for lunch, and there's even a box on your tax return where you include your lunch costs. In Italy, it would cost considerably less, and it's a damn sight better than a sliced whitebread egg sandwich or a chicken roll.

But back on topic, let's say you were skipper for a charter crew in AKL, you want to show them the gulf for a week. What's your route assuming you want to try to minimise cooking on the boat. Two routes? One being money no object, the other being, 30 bucks a night per person for meals...?

[Priscilla II 450]

7 hours ago, Steve Pope said:

NZ is in reality a low wage economy that would do well with copying the Greek way, just need a couple of million Greeks.

Wouldn’t be waxing  to lyrical about things economic and Greeks.

Sure things are going to get tight here but in Greece it’s been bad for a long time and will be even worse now.

However as BP eludes to re-eating in here in Poncenby a beer is $11.00 and a splash of wine is $13.00 so tend to eat in rather than pay that extortionate price before you have even got to the menu.

Re cruising with guests and following a culinary trail our preferred choice is to eat bloody well aboard at all times .

 

[DrWatson 382]

Yeah let's not talk about how damn expensive it is to eat and drink in NZ compared to wages/disposable, and I don't buy that whole "it's because we're isolated" BS. Something is wrong in NZ and it will take a big player with huge balls and deep pockets to force a paradigm shift - but this topic is for a thread elsewhere.

Eating aboard is what we've always done (except Greece and 2 nights in France). But if you're on holiday for a week, might as well make the most of it. Going on holiday for two weeks and dragging the same chores with you was recently pointed out to me as "THIS IS NOT A HOLIDAY!!! I ALREADY SPEND HALF MY DAY BELOW FEEDING CHILDREN!"

Might need to hire a nanny as part of the crew next time...
 

 

[raz88 97]

2 hours ago, DrWatson said:

But back on topic, let's say you were skipper for a charter crew in AKL, you want to show them the gulf for a week. What's your route assuming you want to try to minimise cooking on the boat. Two routes? One being money no object, the other being, 30 bucks a night per person for meals...

Probably not enough places that do this kind of thing to handle the two scenarios. But there are options, assuming you don't mind ferrying yourself ashore.

- Head from other marina to gulf harbour and go to restaurant there. 

- kawau boating club 

- possibly pub at Fitzroy although heard it might have closed

- heaps of choice at oneroa. Including a forum member here who has bought/opened a restaurant there this year. I suspect you could do dinner at a new place at oneroa each night for a week. Also accessible from oneroa or Blackpool so doable in any wind direction 

- Onetangi. Not super different from oneroa, but different eateries. 

- man o war. Beautiful for lunch. Not certain if still open for dinner? 

- various options in Warkworth, requires a decent trip up the river from mahurangi in your dinghy. 

- possibly options at coromandel township. Haven't been for so long I'm not sure what's there these days. 

- if you don't mind a walk or are happy with an uber, many vineyards, craft breweries etc on waiheke. All within easy organising distance of good anchorages. Mostly not cheap. Google cable bay or mud brick to get a feel. 

[Steve Pope 255]

23 hours ago, Priscilla II said:

Wouldn’t be waxing  to lyrical about things economic and Greeks.

Sure things are going to get tight here but in Greece it’s been bad for a long time and will be even worse now.

However as BP eludes to re-eating in here in Poncenby a beer is $11.00 and a splash of wine is $13.00 so tend to eat in rather than pay that extortionate price before you have even got to the menu.

Re cruising with guests and following a culinary trail our preferred choice is to eat bloody well aboard at all times .

 

The Euro is what did for the Greeks, everything worked (in Greek fashion) with the drachma, endemic corruption, offshore fiddles for the big boys, but somehow it all worked ( Italy similar but with the mafia thrown in) How Greece worked is spelt out in Pitmans book of Law! The only thing said about Greece was:- A contract in Greece is an agreement to continue negotiations!! 

[wheels 544]

A real big difference is cost. It is much cheaper to cruise Greek waters and moor up at night and eat out there than it is here in NZ. To hire a yacht here costs a fortune and then eating out at any of those places in the Sounds also costs a fortune. It was once a common thing here in the Sound. Today it is very rare and all those places have either gone or struggling to survive.

[Black Panther 1,776]

One of the reasons we don't eat out as often as we used to is that the price difference between that and buying something special and cooking it at home has simply become too great. 

[waikiore 501]

I agree BP and Steve, dont forget if you dont mind hilly walk Leigh -the pub was once great havent been for a long time but there is the sawmill.

[Black Panther 1,776]

Used to be good fish and chips at Leigh but haven't been there for yonks

[DrWatson 382]

3 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

 

We were paying NZ30 for pizza, over NZ30 for a cheeseburger and into the mid 40's for a Pad Thai. All were good but you can buy equal quality for a lot less here. Those prices were in a smallish EU country, not Scotland.

Wow that's a LOT! What country was that? Also, why you eating Pad Thai in Europe? lol

My experiences in France, Germany, Greece, Italy and Spain, are completely the opposite. Even in Switz I pay only equivalent 20nzd for a great Italian pizza. Italy, 9 course meal incl. wine, 50nzd each. Greece, 14 dishes, + figs + wine enough for 5 Adults, 25 nzd each.

Croatia was more expensive, and the quality (Vis, end of season) was pretty poor, along with surly service ...