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YNZ Safety Regulations 2021


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The usual BS about flares prompted me to check the 2021 edition of YNZ Safety regulations. Flares are still in there, grrr, BUT:

CAT 3 requires the main to be reefed to 50% of luff length.

So KM, tell Alan his new sail is a waist of money.... can't do Coastal with it.

The regs have "Draft" in water mark all over them... I know YNZ failed to get them out on time, buts its April now.

For the 50% rule, refer rule 15.15 (e) on page 35.

I note that for CAT 1&2, it says if you can't fit a trisail, you only need a main that reefs to 35%... which is odd, cause I thought you simply had to have a trisail for Cat 1.

The old rules say main reef to 35% for Cat 3

I did get in writing from the YNZ Chief Inspector mid last year that the requirements for reefing were NOT changing, having heard a rumour about this when getting my new main built.

If this is not an error, I'm not going to be happy. If it is an error, YNZ have lost credibility... I'm not sure how you can have safety regulations that are active, but still in draft format. Or how you can have errors in it.

 

I note I need a sail repair kit for Cat 4. Really? Who ever repairs a sail underway in a sheltered waters harbour race? I wondered why I had all that sh*t on the boat. If I blew out a sail, I'd just set off one of my many flares and get towed home...

New regs: https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/default/files/2021-03/YAC224824 YachtingNZ Safety Regulations - 11Mar2021 - ONLINE.pdf

Old Regs (refer 15.16 page 48) https://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/default/files/2018-10/YNZ Safety Regulations of Sailing 17-20 (Final) (small).pdf

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

CAT 3 requires the main to be reefed to 50% of luff length.

This comes under the section preamble making it a suggestion. 

Skippers should consult their sailmaker and designer 
to arrive at the best sizes. The sizes given below 
are maximum suggested sizes only and should be 
followed only after due consultation.

So get your sail maker/designer to document what your correct/optimal storm reefing point is before you change to the trysail. 

Re pyrotechnic flares, the requirement stems from COLREGS. You wouldn't be the first (or last) to suggest that the UN updates COLREGS to allow EVDS devices.

 

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Thanks for that CD. I had overlooked that pre-amble. That is a substantial shift in intent, tone and language for the "Regulations". It also conflicts with the stated method of reading the regulations. I have been producing standards, specifications and guidelines professionally, and there is a substantial difference in the language used, the intent and the consequent requirement or compulsion to do something. Maybe I could give YNZ a hand to straighten out this document.

"Should" and "Consult" (with designers / sailmakers) have substantially different meanings to "shall" and "Mandatory".

I think YNZ may have created a problem though. Other than the document still being called "Regulations", the clause 15.15 (e) is marked as being "Mandatory" for Cat 3.

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10 minutes ago, Norwegian Blue said:

Ok, so now you have broken the whole YNZ website (403 Forbidden)

At least I have achieved something today then ;-)

You can find the new regs on teh YNZ site, and google found me the old regs quickly.

Its working for me, I'm using Chrome.

I should add a key point Carpe Diem, after re-reading that pre-amble, its states the sizes are strictly Maximum sizes, which would mean it is up to the sailmaker and designer to confirm if those are appropriate, or if you need to go smaller. So in the context of Cat 3, I don't believe there is any wriggle room for my brand new sail with a max 35% reef.

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2 hours ago, Fish said:

Should" and "Consult" (with designers / sailmakers) have substantially different meanings to "shall" and "Mandatory".

This is an issue that’s prolific throughout NZ regulatory landscape. Imprecise wording, shoddy writing and half arsed ideas followed by egotistical idiots and a massive lack of professionalism. Not everywhere, but certainly often enough to make you go “WTF!”

 

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2 hours ago, Fish said:

Thanks for that CD. I had overlooked that pre-amble. That is a substantial shift in intent, tone and language for the "Regulations". It also conflicts with the stated method of reading the regulations. I have been producing standards, specifications and guidelines professionally, and there is a substantial difference in the language used, the intent and the consequent requirement or compulsion to do something. Maybe I could give YNZ a hand to straighten out this document.

"Should" and "Consult" (with designers / sailmakers) have substantially different meanings to "shall" and "Mandatory".

I think YNZ may have created a problem though. Other than the document still being called "Regulations", the clause 15.15 (e) is marked as being "Mandatory" for Cat 3.

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Maximum “suggested” sizes 

so it’s not a mandate just a suggestion....

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4 minutes ago, DrWatson said:

Maximum “suggested” sizes 

so it’s not a mandate just a suggestion....

Yes, while it is not clear, I am taking that, as the sizes are specified as maximum for each Cat (the requirement denoted by an X), that this preamble is saying you may need to go smaller, it is your job to check that. Meaning the below sizes are the maximum that we think you can use.

Think I will follow up with my previous communications to clarify all of this. Having just had a main built, and clarified the requirements with YNZ, the missus has a bee in her bonnet and wants me to push it back to YNZ (don't ask...)

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So I spoke to Angus Willison, got him on the phone first go, so credit there.

I am possibly more confused now.

He said "Don't worry about what the regulations say, if you have a set up suitable for the type of weather and duration you expect to encounter, you will be fine"

Additionally that the regulations have been simplified and made clearer. (allegedly).

About the pre-amble, there intention is to ensure that what is on boats is suitable for those situations, and to not blindly comply with the letter of the regulations.

The bit I am confused about, is what the regulations actually say. Angus says the requirements haven't changed, they've just been made clearer, and that the 35% bit is that the luff length must be reduced to 35%, not buy 35%. So I've no idea what I was complying with previously, but I do know I have three reefs, so I can change gear smoothly, and the third reef is so deep I've never actually used it in anger - I go home before I get into that sort of situation. 

Slight segway, on my commenting for the need of the Coastal to be Cat 3, he said if its blowy most boats bail into Kawua anyway. The interesting comment from him though was that they were bullied into dropping the requirement for liferafts (replaced with mandatory LJ wearing), and that that causes them anxiety. Here was me thinking it was a pragmatic assessment of the risks and probabilities...

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40 minutes ago, Fish said:

He said "Don't worry about what the regulations say, if you have a set up suitable for the type of weather and duration you expect to encounter, you will be fine"

Good luck explaining that to a coroner. 

Either it's a regulation or it isn't. 

Your also supposed to comply with OSR but they are different again. This has been pointed out many times but it doesn't seem to register. 

There is a long way to go before I would call it simplified. 

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2 hours ago, Veladare said:

I am to lazy to do my own donkey work.. but are you saying that you now must wear a life jacket to comply with cat3?

You can do the Coastal as Cat 3- (minus). That is all the usual Cat 3 stuff, but no liferaft. In return all crew are required to wear LJ's. I tend to race short handed anyway, and always wear an LJ 2 up or less, so this is ideal for me. It is intended to remove barriers to lower key or smaller boats doing the coastal. I've also done the Coastal on A div boats with rugby team sized crew. There is a clearer cut cost benefit for liferafts in those situations. I think it is a good, pragmatic balance.

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1 hour ago, ex Elly said:

No, they are saying that you *may* need a reefing point at 50% of the luff on your mainsail for Cat 3.

There in lies the problem.

Where do they say "may"?

The document says an X denotes a mandatory requirement... Angus said (verbally) *may*.

ex Elly, I can't tell if you are being facetious or you are making a legit point?

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4 hours ago, Fish said:

Someone's arse is covered. Its not mine.

No yours is still on the line.It was a verbal comment and easily denied.

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6 minutes ago, Deep Purple said:

Does a roll of stickyback qualify?

I do have a couple of rolls of sticky back onboard, and that is all I would ever use. I've got the needle and palm (like a full sail repair kit) in the shed. It was beyond me why we ever had it on the boat, until I saw the requirement in the Regs.

Depth sounders, who thinks these are an essential safety device? With modern chart plotters and knowning exactly where you are at all times, how does a sounder add to safety now? Ask for a friend, who in the past has bitched ang moaned about having to cut a hole in a classic that only draws 1.3m, just so they can comply with the regs.

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String line qualifies as depth sounder, and will work once your struck by lightning and all the wires in your mast get damaged 

last RNI (Cat 2) yachts with squaretop mains were required to have 50% reefing ability were as pinheads were ok with 35% and a tri sail. There’s still a lot of sail up with 50% reef in a squaretop especially in 50+kts on the noise short tacking into Wellington  

 

I haven’t gone deep into this latest round ( can’t be assed until they become official )

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