Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I'm just in the design stage for a main to replace the aging Dacron main on my R930. Definitely going to a square top as the rig is free of a backstay and was designed with one in mind. Question is how big to go? Anyone switched to a square-top with any advice. I've picked up that you can go a bit bigger because of the way they twist off, but not sure how big to goon an already reasonably tender boat. Sailing will be mostly harbour courses and coastal stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Is it the Standard Keel or modded? Find the fastest one with a similar keel and Rig and copy them, no point experimenting unless you have loads of cash to blow. http://racetrack.org.nz/class.php?classid=15 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,717 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Pretty much no limit, just need a stiff top batten 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philstar 62 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 The keel isn't the major thing as there are lots of standard keel r930's running square top mains. Too big a square top creates drag which negates the extra speed produced. The good thing is that R930's have been doing square top mains for a while now and the sail makers arn't experimenting too much any more. Get quotes from the major lofts and compare pricing and laminates. talk to the owners and see what they say. airship and testarossa have pretty nice evolution square tops. norths make a really nice square top too currently on no worries ( i think), pepe and a few others. I have a pretty nice doyles square top on rafferty rules I'd be more worried about the laminates they're using. The biggest difference in the last few years is that the laminates have gotten better ( apparently) with the new stratis and norths 3di laminates getting much longer life. If you're pinging several grand on a laminate mainsail you want it to last several years of hard racing and the old laminates are not that durable. I've seen fairly new ish laminate sails from various lofts fall apart sooner than I would have liked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 454 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Only one of the 930s had an uncontrolled square top but that seems to have disappeared, ETNZ are doing a bit of work in this area at the moment-and as others have commented all the cloth and sailmakers are getting better at them, of course BP has the answer gaff or for the ultimate a large lugsail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Thanks heaps, The boat has the old keel. Will look at what testarossa is running. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Changed 10 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Had 12% first and then stepped up to 20% ( foot length). Thing you will notice most is the ease with which you can control ragging when the breeze gets up. Wouldn't go back to a pin head.(Ross 8.5m) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Had 12% first and then stepped up to 20% ( foot length). Thing you will notice most is the ease with which you can control ragging when the breeze gets up. Wouldn't go back to a pin head.(Ross 8.5m) Magic! Looks like most of the 930’s are in 20% range too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ptown 14 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Good choice. I was going to say that the North one on Hotdogger is the nicest I've seen and it'd be about 350mm. Agree on the sneeze. I still don't have a square top and cat3 have to run the class main and still have not seen any obvious disadvantage, but we've got a few options to stay powered up. Geeze you must be close to getting her back in the water if you're buying sails! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frickie 9 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I love my ST main... and very strong sail too. Wouldn't go back to pin head. Same sailmaker as Changed, just as happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frickie 9 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 True, me tackle is a bit bigger ("Wellington" keel) and the boat is heavy (Volvo 9hp ballast), but I don't have any issues with the ST compared to the pin head that was on there when I bought her. Upwind, in moderate conditions I don't have any greater heel - so long as the leech is left open to get the twist required in the upper 1/3. Just need more outhaul and a bit less vang, and the sail really looks after itself. I would still reef at the same times once winds are over moderate. What I do have is a small 'flattening reef' at 150mm (or 200?), that I use solo over about 15knts, that is well worth getting in any new main (IMHO). Downwind is where you notice the extra sail area of the ST, great for those pesky no extras races! It is rare to have up too much sail going downwind in a R930! Reaching is the area I am still working on, in the CC this year I couldn't keep the boat balanced from Hen & Chicks with the wind on the beam. Coming home I experimented with using a (bigger) A3 instead of the A5 and a reef in the main. That did seem to help. So, I think a std keel and ST are a good option.... esp if the rig is designed for no strings at the back of the boat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 True, me tackle is a bit bigger ("Wellington" keel) and the boat is heavy (Volvo 9hp ballast), but I don't have any issues with the ST compared to the pin head that was on there when I bought her. Upwind, in moderate conditions I don't have any greater heel - so long as the leech is left open to get the twist required in the upper 1/3. Just need more outhaul and a bit less vang, and the sail really looks after itself. I would still reef at the same times once winds are over moderate. What I do have is a small 'flattening reef' at 150mm (or 200?), that I use solo over about 15knts, that is well worth getting in any new main (IMHO). Downwind is where you notice the extra sail area of the ST, great for those pesky no extras races! It is rare to have up too much sail going downwind in a R930! Reaching is the area I am still working on, in the CC this year I couldn't keep the boat balanced from Hen & Chicks with the wind on the beam. Coming home I experimented with using a (bigger) A3 instead of the A5 and a reef in the main. That did seem to help. So, I think a std keel and ST are a good option.... esp if the rig is designed for no strings at the back of the boat. Thanks! The current main is quite an oversized, big roachy main which gives less helm and heel than the slightly more bagged out class main. Thinking to go around the 45-50cm mark (So 10-12% of foot). Will definitely get a flattening reef then 2 reefs for cat 3 and to bring the head down inside the runners (@MH for reef 1 and Hounds for reef 2) so to windward I can tack in the heavy stuff with both runners on if I have too. Can always chuck the pinhead back on for the real heavy stuff if the need arises. Right track???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 What is the flattening reef? Does it just lift the clew or is the foot not loose? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/flattening-reef.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tazzy Devil 18 Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 aluminium cathedral rig with a decent section ( not the class noodle rig) runners on deflectors, no back stay. Checks at about a metre or so. The rig is a bit of a beast really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/flattening-reef.html So it just lifts the boom a little bit. In days of old the flattening reef pulled out the shape in the bottom of the sail as it tightened the draft control seam... I haven't seen a DCS for many years Quote Link to post Share on other sites
splat 56 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 This is the central response Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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