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Do cat one inspections do any good?


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KM asked a while back if there was anything we would like to ask YNZ.

as a result I asked the maritime rescue centre for a list of boats leaving NZ that needed rescuing. I also asked customs for total numbers leaving. This was a bigger deal than expected and I had to go through the OIA . But finally got 14 years of records.

 

From 2005 through 2017 inclusive 7995 recreational vessels departed NZ.

 

14 called for help. Or 0.175%.

6 were NZ Reg (had cat 1). 0.34%

8 Were foreign flags 0.13%

 

 

So cat one inspected boats were nearly three times more likely to require assistance.

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Can you show your working BP?

 

14 boats needing help, 6 Cat 1 NZ Flag and 8 overseas flag's would seem to indicate NZ Flagged Cat 1's only made up 42% of rescues or 0.075% of all leaving vessels. Overseas flagged were 0.1% of all leaving vessels and 58% of all rescues.

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Lies, damn lies and statistics I think is the saying.

 

Most of the foreign flags had sailed a long way to be able depart from NZ.

Some a very long way.

 

A couple of points to ponder....

1. how many of the foreign flags that needed help would have failed Cat one

2. how experienced were the crew on the NZ flagged boats that needed assistance

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A couple of points to ponder....

1. how many of the foreign flags that needed help would have failed Cat one

2. how experienced were the crew on the NZ flagged boats that needed assistance[/quote

 

Yes. It is up to us how we interpret the results.

IMO Nearly all the offshore boats would pass cat one, though many of the skippers may be pissed at the cost and bother.

 

Some of the NZ crews were very experienced.

 

I agree experience is a bigger factor than hardware. But the NZ regs make no allowance for experienced crew. Maybe make it optional if the skipper has over x offshore miles?

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I personaly wouldnt jump on a boat, off shore without CAT 1.

 

If an adult wants to go of on his own without all the safety gear, is willing to pay for a rescue or doesnt want to be found if he gets in trouble. Let them go, good luck. No diiferent than base jumping or other extreme sports which I like watching.

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David, I'd be interested to hear in detail how and why your boat differs from Cat 1.

 

(BTW in your stats, you may have a sampling problem because within the NZ rescue area boats with NZ Cat 1 are likely to be more numerous. You may also have a correlation problem: correlation is not causation.)

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(BTW in your stats, you may have a sampling problem because within the NZ rescue area boats with NZ Cat 1 are likely to be more numerous. You may also have a correlation problem: correlation is not causation.)

No,

Cause that is boats departing NZ, therefore all boats covered in the stats transit the same SAR area.

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KM asked a while back if there was anything we would like to ask YNZ.

as a result I asked the maritime rescue centre for a list of boats leaving NZ that needed rescuing. I also asked customs for total numbers leaving. This was a bigger deal than expected and I had to go through the OIA . But finally got 14 years of records.

 

Good work on actually going to the time and effort to get the stats.

Can't argue with facts (although it would seem some will try to).

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David, I'd be interested to hear in detail how and why your boat differs from Cat 1.

 

His boat is made of plywood, which is a material deemed by the establishment to be inferior, prone to failure, and consequently banned.

Refer the Infidel case.

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It is true correlation is not causation. But in round numbers NZ boats are 1/4 of departures and 1/3 of rescues so we are nearly 3 times as likely to need rescue. So let's look at why that may be.

One possibility is the experience filter on the foreign boats.

Another possibility is cat one is counter productive, or at least of negligible value.

I'd love to hear other possibilities.

 

 

 

Kevin. I'm very close to cat one. Last trip my flares expired a week before I left. I didn't replace them as I knew I would be 2-3 years before I went again.

Also if I race I need gz curve at some cost to tell me something I already know.

I don't like liferafts much but no one is working on a better solution and I don't have the time and money to do it myself.

I can't stand SSB and carried smartphones before they were legal. I would be quite happy now with one of these new toys like iridium go and may well decide on that.

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Interesting numbers fella, well done.

 

KM asked a while back if there was anything we would like to ask YNZ.

The AGM was this morning. I was going to go but its not a real AGM only a box ticking exercise with no chance to discuss important issues. Also the Annual Report makes such sad reading it put me off. So I've spent the morning doing something good for NZ yachting instead.

 

I personaly wouldnt jump on a boat, off shore without CAT 1.

Cat 1 is only a piece of paper. Safety is a mindset.

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1/4 of nz departures results in 1/3 rescue why? inexperienced crews/skippers due to yachts being inexpensive,which leads to my thinking that every man thinks he can go offshore with no worries,just need to get cat1 and away little or no sailing experience.

 

We have all heard the stories of,mate she was a cake ride to fiji etc

Would I contemplate going offshore in my own vessel without going with an experienced crew/skipper first?NO

 

Perhaps there needs to be some form of bond/insurance to cover rescues?no I do not think so gives the airforce something to do and lets the navy put in to practice what they have been taught

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Thanks David for the Cat 1 response. I wouldn't set out without a liferaft.

 

The other possibility in the stats (and I'm not arguing either way, just setting out some stats possibilities) is that the small number of rescues isn't enough to be statistically significant (ie not enough to draw firm conclusions).

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Guest Saturday Night Special

His boat is made of plywood, which is a material deemed by the establishment to be inferior, prone to failure, and consequently banned.

Refer the Infidel case.

That was because the CYC didnt want their boats beaten by a cheap quick boat.On this side of the ditch the commodore of the Squadron Jack Brooke deemed it unsuitable for boat construction latter proving himself wrong by designing the sunburst.

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