vic008 17 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 So the Burnsco one is only ok plugged in when I am there. Thats all right. So it wont get a ewof then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whitepointer 34 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Halfmoon bay allow 3 days connected with lead unattended, but you must inform marina office, security normally unplug it for you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 507 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 The Earthing plate is an interesting one. It's good to see that a little common sense has occurred in the Industry, but "on paper" there is no clause in the rules that state this is for Commercial only. The idea is that the water surrounding the Boat is at the same Earth potential as the metal components of the Boat. This is the bit I don't get, if the AC shore earth is only connected to the engine (along with the DC earth) then is the small amount of water that might be left in the impeller pump sufficient to earth the boat to the water? My impeller pump just happens to be below the water line, I guess others might not be, thus no connection to the water at all? I suppose if there is enough vacuum that the heat exchanger might stay connected giving more surface area, but my maintenance has shown that the rubber pipe from the heat exchanger to the impellor is empty at the water line. If this connectivity is tested or not by an eWOF inspector is kind of irrelevant, it's obviously required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 This is the bit I don't get, if the AC shore earth is only connected to the engine (along with the DC earth) then is the small amount of water that might be left in the impeller pump sufficient to earth the boat to the water? No absolutely not. The actual earthing plate is about a sq m in area. But, Earth (which is neutral polarity) from the AC box onboard should be tied to DC ground? Then if I use my isolating transformer I should not need this. (and other downstream safety devices) Just to be a little more technically correct here, the earth is "Bonded" to neutral. Only DC has a polarity of positive and negative. AC does not have a Polarity as such, because it is AC. The same voltage flows in both conductors, but is 180deg phase opposing and alternating 50 times per second. Absolutely, the Earth is still used when using an Iso Tx. The Earth still remains that life line. The only difference is that the Phase/ Neutral/ Earth are isolated from the Shore power. By the way, not all Isolating Tx's are wired the same when it comes to Earth. In some cases, the Earth in and out can be bonded together. Not the best for a Marine install when the entire point is to isolate from the Shore power Earth. (A reason why I like Galvanic Isolator) Some Iso tx's and best for a marine install, can have a lifted Earth. The Mains Earth is connected to the core of the Tx. That keeps the Tx safe should a short occur. The Secondary earth is made by bonding to the Neutral. Thus all 2 conductors are isolated from shore power supply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 This is the bit I don't get, if the AC shore earth is only connected to the engine (along with the DC earth) then is the small amount of water that might be left in the impeller pump sufficient to earth the boat to the water? No absolutely not. The actual earthing plate is about a sq m in area. But, Earth (which is neutral polarity) from the AC box onboard should be tied to DC ground? Then if I use my isolating transformer I should not need this. (and other downstream safety devices) Just to be a little more technically correct here, the earth is "Bonded" to neutral.Only DC has a polarity of positive and negative. AC does not have a Polarity as such, because it is AC. The same voltage flows in both conductors, but is 180deg phase opposing and alternating 50 times per second.Absolutely, the Earth is still used when using an Iso Tx. The Earth still remains that life line. The only difference is that the Phase/ Neutral/ Earth are isolated from the Shore power.By the way, not all Isolating Tx's are wired the same when it comes to Earth. In some cases, the Earth in and out can be bonded together. Not the best for a Marine install when the entire point is to isolate from the Shore power Earth. (A reason why I like Galvanic Isolator) Some Iso tx's and best for a marine install, can have a lifted Earth. The Mains Earth is connected to the core of the Tx. That keeps the Tx safe should a short occur. The Secondary earth is made by bonding to the Neutral. Thus all 2 conductors are isolated from shore power supply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 359 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 this is a schematic from ABYC guidelines showing a marine transformer with an isolated earth per Wheels description note this is from USA so wire colours and voltage are different but connections are the same. My preference where possible is a transformer of this type as they maintain the ground isolation from the shore. A galvanic isolator is effectively a one use item, typically once it has conducted a fault current it does not provide protection and should be replaced. Just to confuse matters there are 2 types, one fails open after use, the other fails closed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,278 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 The whole point of an isolating transformer is that it does not actually "contact" any of the Phase, Neutral, or Earth cables. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 There is ALWAYS some danger when it comes to Power. You can never make it completely safe, apart from disconnecting it. If we get in between the Phase and Neutral in some way, then as electricity see's it, we are just another load.I don't know about today, but it used to be that in some countries, Earth was not used. But that causes other issues and dangers, mainly in th area of stray voltages doing weird things. So for us in NZ, we use the MEN system. The Earth, even though it is connected to Neutral, is the life line for us and stops those stray voltages. Very simply, the copper conductor conducts the Electricity much better than we do, so the Phase shorts directly to Earth and ruptures the Fuse, instead of running through us as if we were yet another load. The TX simply isolated us from the ability to get between Earth and a live conductor.In the case of an RCD, this is the best modern day means of detecting a fault and disconnecting it before our hair gets permanently permed, The RCD works by sensing that fault current running through the Earth conductor and triggering and disconnecting the Power.For a land based Iso Tx, the secondary side does not actually need an Earth. Simply because most systems were designed to run nothing much more than a Power Tool. For a Boat though, those weird stray voltages can run wild. So we need a way of tying them down and the best way to do that, is by reinstating an Earth.The ONLY thing the Isolation does, is disconnect the boat from the Shore power, which then disconnects the Boat from the other boats in the Marina. POOR CONNECTIONS cause stray currents and all other boats poorly connected by Salt water allow the voltages to occur. Disconnect the boats, and the voltages cannot exist. That is all the Tx and Galv ISO does. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 124 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Thanks Wheels - that the best explanation I've seen for this complex issue! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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