Shore power connections

[Marshy 30]

Have had this conversation with a few Electricans at Bux marina as we have just had labels stuck on all of our extension cords that say there are "Stray Electrical Mice" getting into the marina and harming boats, What i dont get is that when it is an extension cord plugged into a dehumidifyer how is there any electrolysis getting into the Marina from that? Unless the boat really is damp and it goes via the water.

 

Seems like a bit of a crock when ther is already an RCD at the powerpoint, and one at the top of the pier...

 

I think im going to cable tie a toy stuffed cat to my extension cord and label it the Electrical Mice catcher... That oughta sort it

[wheels 543]

I got a follow up message left on my phone from Port Marlborough. Nice a polite, but in a nutshell they don't really care. If you want to connect to power, you have to have an eWOF full stop or they won't allow you to connect. They don't care about anything else, it's not their problem.

Fairly typical of them. I certainly ain't going to miss this outfit.

[wheels 543]

I while back I read some articles in the NZ Boating mag written by Nigel Calder. He is a highly respected name in the Marine Elctrical field. I just wondered, is there any chance this guy is now in NZ?? Maybe it was just articles placed in the mag, but I did think they seemed to have a slight Kiwi influence in them and wondered.

Otto, if by some chance he is in NZ, it could be well worth the effort of trauing to track him down and seeing if he could be of any help.

[otto 31]

cheers for that but the only Nigel i find is a london based writer. have had answers from all backgrounds including senior electrical inspectors so hopefully they will agree to a meeting to discuss the situation.

[Farrari 4]

By Deborah Bach on September 12th, 2009

Q&A: Writer and marine systems expert Nigel Calder talks about hybrid boats, green technology and why that extra knot of speed is a bad idea

Photo by Stefania Righetti Nilsen

Sailor, writer and hybrid marine technology advocate Nigel Calder

 

Nigel Calder has long been known to boaters as an expert on marine systems and diesel engines. His “Boatowner’s Mechanical and Electrical Manual” and “Marine Diesel Engines” books are considered the definitive works in their fields. More recently, the world-renowned sailor and writer, who lives in Maine, has been leading the charge to adapt automotive hybrid technology for boats. With a $3-million grant from the European Union, Calder assembled a team of industry experts and in May of this year launched the Hybrid Marine (HYMAR) project, a three-year initiative focused on refining marine systems. Three Sheets caught up with the 61-year-old Calder in Port Townsend, where he’s speaking at this weekend’s annual Wooden Boat Festival.

 

http://www.threesheetsnorthwest.com/blog/2009/09/qa-writer-and-marine-systems-expert-nigel-calder-talks-about-hybrid-boats-green-technology-and-why-that-extra-knot-of-speed-is-a-bad-idea/

 

Looks like Nigel lives in Maine. His Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical manual is well worth owning.

[Fogg 427]

He's a Brit. He's written some definitive marine electrical books and more recently moved on to hybrid techs. But as someone else pointed out, Nigel "does nothing for nothing" and others have tried to contact him before to ask for advice but had trouble getting any response. He focuses on his commercial activities, so even if he was in NZ I doubt you'd get him along for a look-see as a favour!

 

"In this blog, I (Calder) will provide regular updates on how we are doing, and how the new technologies are working out. I also will be writing articles for Professional Boatbuilder magazine (Professional BoatBuilder Magazine), Yachting Monthly (Yachting Monthly online | sailing news, blogs, gear reviews and weather), Sail magazine (Sail Magazine home page), Ocean Navigator (Ocean Navigator: The magazine for long-distance offshore sailing and power voyaging), and others. The finished boat will be on display at Malo’s ‘Open House’ in August 2008."

[otto 31]

Ok, Below is a letter that was sent out to those that contacted me and applies to boats within Westhaven Marina of which i must say were excellent to deal with and are keen to carry on if need be.

 

So, if people want to get a standard for all marinas around the country a working group would be recommended.

 

Now to some paid work

 

 

 

Power Supplies

 

While this is being sent directly to those that have asked myself about a power supply for their boat it is also written with general comments as I would have no doubt it will be forwarded to others.

 

The information, comments and findings are after discussions with the Ministry of Economic Development, various inspectors, engineers and qualified personal. The following documents have also been referred to, the Electrical (safety) Regulations 2010 and the Australian/ New Zealand standards, in particular AS/NZS 3000:2007.

 

I must also add that a letter was sent to Westhaven Marina who immediately replied and agreed upon a meeting. Simple communication which has answered many questions and of which some of the comments below are based on this meeting.

 

Firstly some facts.

• A boat that has an appliance inlet supplying permanently installed wiring is a “connectable installation” and will require an Electrical Warrant of Fitness, (EWOF).

• A boat that has a permanently installed socket outlet for 230V supply which is in-turn supplied by either an appliance inlet or a lead is also a “connectable installation” and will require an EWOF.

• Boats such as a Ross 930, Elliot 12 or a Young 88 are (usually) not connectable installations and may have an appliance operating within them via a suitable lead without an EWOF (providing other conditions are met).

• A 16A to 10A lead as is currently commonly used is legal and complies with the standards providing it is tagged, suitably rated and the point of supply is via a 16A RCBO.

 

It is also important to note that the owner of the marina can impose additional requirements which they consider will further increase the safe use of power within the marina. This being for the marina owner, the boat owner and the public.

 

Following these discussions with Westhaven Marina they have agreed to the following methods for powering an appliance in the majority of boats which meet all the relevant standards.

• A suitably rated lead fitted at both ends with 16A fittings. Plugged into the female end within the boat is a 16A plug connected to a 10A outlet which has a 10A circuit breaker.

• A 16A plug for connection to the marina with a suitably rated lead supplying a 10A socket outlet with a 10A circuit breaker.

• All leads must be tested and (clearly) displaying a tag for a period no longer than 12 months. This tag located on the lead at the point of supply.

• Also, a boat that is a connectable installation will require an EWOF.

Attached is a picture of one such lead.

 

It must be remembered that the use of power within your boat is also your responsibility to ensure its safety. Testing the RCBO when plugging in the lead is one requirement. Deciding on whether the 10A socket outlet needs to have an IP rating is another and should be discussed with the electrical supplier.

 

Westhaven marina currently have leads with 10A outlets available (or who to contact) and (I believe) will have more options available in the near future. These will be supplied with a current tag applied.

 

Alternately you can contact your electrician for a price. The cost of maintenance is the same however a one off cost of a suitable lead and plug will need to be made. For some your existing leads may be suitable with a circuit breaker and socket outlet added.

 

I would not recommend (for most) that a permanent installation be considered as this will increase costs of maintenance and be more prone to damage with no advantage in safety. Depending on the type of boat caution must also be mentioned regarding transient currents and electrolysis, this effecting all boats and the marina. This can be reduced with the installation of isolating transformers and galvanic isolators, suitable for the larger boats but not racing yachts.

 

It would also be advantageous if a working group was formed to discuss the use of power within marinas for all vessels. This would help ensure you have a simple power supply that is safe and (possibly) can be used throughout N.Z. I would consider my involvement but should someone be interested I am sure Westhaven Marina would be open to discussion and I would pass on my contacts and recommendations at least. One task that would help lower costs is for all leads to be tested during the same month.

 

I trust this answers your questions.

[El Toro 97]

Got a letter from Westhaven over weekend saying that they didnt think my plug setup was legal.. not sure what this was based on as reading on I saw that I most def was in compliance...anyone else get one of these?

[Guest]

No but I know one boat in Bayswater just had a lead, as described by Otto, OKed and stickered up by a Sparky dude who is allowed to OK things like that, knows boats well and is an approved Marina contractor outfit. That went against what the boats in there have been told i.e. we have to become a 'connectible installation'. Which in my and most similar boats cases is ludicrous, makes the boats more dangerous to use and means all the electric bollix I would have to fit will be trashed by moisture meaning that will make the electrics more dangerous than our current situation, which is using a proper lead as described by Otto and I brought from the bloody marina itself.

 

It very much looks like the whole palava is down to interpretation rather than much else. One says this, another says that and it seems to be a either black or white situation which in many case, like me again, just is totally silly. The only reason I have used the approved lead is for a dehumidifier to dry the bloody boat out as it's knot large and often gets piles of wet sails chucked in it.... and the odd big leak So it's often very humid and moist, a bit like a girl I used to know who......Opps, that's another thread.

 

If I have to become a connectible installation I'll have to run the dehumidifier 24/7/365 just to make sure the electrics I very very rarely use don't become a death trap and fry my kids.

 

What's even worst is some marinas are enforcing it to the letter, some enforcing some bits but knot others and some are looking at each situation with a more pragmatic approach. So who's to know what the hell is happening where and when.

 

Sure I do see a good reason for many boats to go the whole 9 yards but also in many cases doing that I see as a waste of time that will knot make the slightest thing safer and in fact work out to be the total opposite. And of course when someone does get fried by the very electrics being forced upon them everyone will run a mile.

 

Gawd, I'm getting more cynical by the day. I better stop dealing with councils and Govt Depts

[SloopJohnB 322]

 

It very much looks like the whole palava is down to interpretation rather than much else. One says this, another says that and it seems to be a either black or white situation which in many case, like me again, just is totally silly.

 

 

Typical writings of bureaucrat, nothing definite or precise, so every time you come up with something, they can always say it doesn't comply, but will not say how to make it comply. Because it may be incorrect, and their arse may get kicked.

 

Just like jumping thru invisible hoops.

[Guest]

The latest Seaview Marina newsletter has an article that says all new liveaboards must have an EWOF.

Liveaboards that are currently in the marina have until the 1st of June to get compliant.

It also says that you can buy a distribution board that will come with a current EWOF as part of the price.

To me this means it is possibly a "removeable" board.

[wheels 543]

Typical writings of bureaucrat, nothing definite or precise, so every time you come up with something, they can always say it doesn't comply, but will not say how to make it comply. Because it may be incorrect, and their arse may get kicked.

I have just gone through this wiring a boat. Two different Marine sparkies have also been doing work on the boat. Both have made different comments. The Owner fitted a power Socket being sold by a Local chandlery and it meets all standards. One inspector has said, No that socket is illegal. Inspector phoned Chandlery and told them to remove it from the shelf. Chandlery said, but these are being sold throughout the country as the Industry requirement for the situation and it meets all the Standards required. Tellme whats wrong with it? The inspector said, because it doesn't have round Pins. No where in the regs does it say what Pin shape it has to have. So they told the Inspector to "have sex and travel". Then one of those Sparkies said the elctrical cable used is not legal. The proper stuff is round. Ummm, take a look at the number. That is all that is reguired. It must come up to AS/NZS 5001:2 and the conductors must be of at least 7 strands. All the reguired numbers were printed on the side of the cable and on the Drum. The inspector has told one other boat he has to rip all the wiring out and replace it. I have come to the conclusion that this inspector has no clue. By the way, he is the same inspector that I have to tell him how the electrical system in a boat worked some 5yrs ago. It is all very well have a qualification to say you are a such and such and have a book of rules, but if you don't understand how it all goes together, then the above situation occurs. People look at the rules in black and white and can't think laterally enough if the words aren't exactly as the script says.

Oh and I am hearing stories now of inspectors in some area's not doing the full inspection now required by the new law and simply doing a very quick and brief test and putting the sticker on. From the boaters point of view, yippeeee. From a Legal point of view, it is disturbing.

[Guest]

Without a transformer, are you not severely shortening the life of your zinc anodes?

[Grinna 2]

PC, we got a letter from Westhaven the other day about electrical connections too.

 

We got a EWOF last year and the sparky said the cable was covered under the EWOF inspection .... good till 2013 according to the sticker. Ahhhhhh ... no.

 

According to Westhaven, the cable needs to be inspected, tested and tagged .... and needs this annually. *sigh* so we took the cable to another sparky who tested it, tagged it and its now good till 2013 according to its tag (all within the regs according to the sparky). We'll see if Westhaven write us another letter next year (if we're still there) telling us we need to have the cable tested and tagged again.

[El Toro 97]

Grinna, do you still have that letter? I biffed mine but I'd e keen for a copy of it. Are you abel to scan and post here or fax to me 2700127 ATT: Tom

[Guest]

I wouldn't mind a copy also Grinna. Ta.

Looks like I'm about to go head bashing over it all as well.

[wheels 543]

Without a transformer, are you not severely shortening the life of your zinc anodes?

Not if all is wired and operating correctly and not if the other boats in the Marina are the same. But due to not being able to rely totaly on that, then either Transformer or Galv Isolator can protect you from other boats with issues.

[Grinna 2]

Ack! The letter's no longer in my bag ... think I threw it out. I'll check at home in case it didn't make it to the bin yet.

[otto 31]

There still seems to be confusion and misinterpretation surrounding this and I would say is driven by some that are perhaps within the marina association and getting incorrect advice.

 

Re the Seaview marina newsletter dated 11 May, this is correct.

Then in issue 12 they are now saying all boats must have an EWOF. This is incorrect and again I point out that many yachts do not have a 230V distribution on board and are not a connectable installation.

 

Here is a picture of a connectable installation.

 

Having an EWOF attached to the socket outlet within a locked boat also does not comply.

 

My previous post explained this and an attempt at a working party to get a standard for all marina’s was attempted, Westhaven being keen for this to happen and I would say still are. Over the weekend the latest newsletter from Westhaven was also sent out with an article on power supplies. This being similar to my earlier posting with the exception they now want a 10A RCBO, this I am unsure as to why as no extra protection is given and nuisance tripping may occur.

 

Westhaven has also stated that all boats do not have to be a connectable installation. Where others are still stating this I would also argue that with many of the sports boats and racers this would in fact become more of a hazard.

 

Also those boats that are now connectable installations and supplied without an isolating transformer do you have a galvanic isolator? I would suggest that the relevant standard is read by the electrical contractor.

 

Apart from reading the regulations and standards I also called upon others directly within the industry for their opinions and comments of which the following is a reply from one electrical contractor who solely works on boats; “One concern with people being forced into having a permanent installation on their boat, is that they will endeavour to do so as cheaply as possible and may satisfy the electrical regulations, but without proper knowledge of galvanic corrosion and galvanic isolators, run the very real risk of rapid deterioration of hull, skin fittings, prop shafts etc. This can happen to any boat with any metal in contact with the water. Direct connection with the shore earth provides a parallel path for any currents generated anywhere in the shore earthing system to exit to earth through the vessels vulnerable metalwork. The user may not be electrocuted but that wouldn’t count for much if he drowns when his boat sinks.”

 

And something I found on a marina of late is shown in this photo, have deleted the marinas name but my concern is that if a marina wants us to do more than what is required by law then they should at least follow the minimum. While the unit itself may be safe, where is the tag and when used as it is here does not comply with AS/NZS 3004 part 1.

 

 

The answer, pressure your berth-holders association to form a working party and put this to bed correctly.

[wheels 543]

“One concern with people being forced into having a permanent installation on their boat, is that they will endeavour to do so as cheaply as possible and may satisfy the electrical regulations, but without proper knowledge of galvanic corrosion and galvanic isolators,

Ummm, well that isn't, or shouldn't happen, because then in theory anyway, the system shouldn't be passed for eWOF. And that is one of my main concerns and soemthing I am alreayd hearing happening. That inspectors are not carrying out the inspection to the requirements of the Law. I keep repeating this, that to carry out the full inspection means proper inspection and testing of BOTH AC and DC systems. it will mean hrs of work and it will cost big time. PLUS!!!! An underwater Earthing plate Must be fitted. Ludicrous in my opinion. But it is required by this new Reg.

Another thing that is happening here in Marlborough, is that one inspector has a totaly incorrect understanding of many areas of this new reg and requiring people to remove components when they do not have to. This guy even told the manufacturer of a particular socket, that they do not comply. They told him to have sex and travel.

But in the end, what do you do when the Marina owners themselves don't care. That is the attitude of Port Marlborough and all the boat owners here are getting no where.