Problems with safety equipment

[Black Panther 1,672]

From the John Mansell thread. Now we hear of inadequate clips on safety harnesses.  I have seen man overboard strobes that float upside down, and I've seen them totally mysh on the inside as not waterproof  

Any other issues?? Be a good thing to share  

[Clipper 356]

The ‘inadequate clips’ are fine if used as intended. I believe if most tether clips get caught and side load they will be much weaker.

i had 2 strobes on voom that floated on their side, replaced after Tim C bought it up.

I had an old liferaft i inflated. Torch batteries were flat, possibly spares flat too. Flares were 2 years out of date, liferaft only 1 yr out of service.

My PLB with a 7 year life stopped working after 5, replaced by manufacturer. Test them people (check the time, just after the hour maybe?)

And here is one of my own making. I unscrewed the canister in my inflatable lifejacket for flying. 12 months later opened up to service and canister fell on floor. I forgot to reattach! 

 

 

[Cantab 341]

Someones getting paid off big time to keep these on the market.

[Kevin McCready 83]

We've still got a long way to go in improving safety culture. One big thing is the definition of a life jacket. Maritime NZ allows the wearing of devices that it knows can leave the wearer face down in the water for chrissakes. https://kmccready.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/lifejackets-lifejackets-and-sissies/

[Dr Dave 5]

Thank you for starting BP

For a bit of context - my post

 

I will only clip onto a "jackline" on deck. Also beware of lateral loads

There are a number of incidents where people have come to grief attaching to stays or bollards

See https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/200975/Tether-hook-angle-was-crucial-factor-in-death

Regards

Dr Dave

[Dr Dave 5]

I use the Spinlock 3 hook tether -https://www.spinlock.co.uk/en/categories/safety-lines/product_groups/performance-safety-lines

The new clips are lighter and much easier to use one handed

Yes they are expensive, however I trust my life to them

NOTE - they also carry a warning regarding lateral loads

Regards

Dr Dave

[Cantab 341]

I agree DD that what you do is probably safer given the equipment on the market but:

From the safety regulations

"Through-bolted or welded anchorage points
or other suitable and strong anchorages for
safety harnesses must be provided adjacent
to stations such as the helm, sheet winches
and masts"

If the shiny new tether you just bought at great expense ins't safe to use as recommended by the regulations it is not "fit for purpose" and shouldn't be on the market.

 

[Black Panther 1,672]

I'll add another.  Anything made of fabric: ddrogues on liferings flags on danbuoys. 2 ye lifespan in the tropics tops. At the very least replace with vinyl  

[2flit 52]

9 hours ago, Clipper said:

The ‘inadequate clips’ are fine if used as intended. I believe if most tether clips get caught and side load they will be much weaker.

i had 2 strobes on voom that floated on their side, replaced after Tim C bought it up.

I had an old liferaft i inflated. Torch batteries were flat, possibly spares flat too. Flares were 2 years out of date, liferaft only 1 yr out of service.

My PLB with a 7 year life stopped working after 5, replaced by manufacturer. Test them people (check the time, just after the hour maybe?)

And here is one of my own making. I unscrewed the canister in my inflatabl.e lifejacket for flying. 12 months later opened up to service and canister fell on floor. I forgot to reattach! 

 

 

That Spinlock clip in the picture has failed with only a 200 kg side load, that's a frighteningly small amount of force to have them fail at. I would not be willing to assume that even a taught jack-line could prevent a clip from ever being subjected accidental side loading in all circumstances. 

Even cheep $13.00  aluminum carabiners handle three times that side load (see attached : Side Loaded Carabiner). Why can't the folks making tethers worth many times this amount make something that can withstand significantly more than a 200 kg side load?

 

[Cantab 341]

So if the Spinlock Clips are not suitable for use on the required anchor points should they be acceptable for passing your category inspection?

Should the inspector (or YNZ and therefore Maritime NZ), knowing they are not fit for purpose, accept them?

In a perfect world they meet some ISO standard and would only ever be subject to a perfect load, by the time you have fallen off or been swept out of your boat you are a long way from a perfect world. Would be nice if your safety equipment could cope with that.

[Island Time 1,278]

Im not sure that that IS is spinlock clip. This is;

[Ed 144]

Seems spinlock have a standard (pictured below) and performance version that IT posted
this is the double cup tether currently on the fosters website

[Cantab 341]

7 hours ago, Island Time said:

Im not sure that that IS is spinlock clip

Found these articles, very informative, I think your right IT but apparently most clips on the market will do the same. You need to read all three to get the whole picture. Just read the last one if you need info on what to choose - hint Spinlock didn't cut the mustard in several ways.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/safety-tether-clip-in-caution

https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/tether-clip-update

https://www.practical-sailor.com/safety-seamanship/safety-tethers-under-scrutiny

"Based on our testing, a variety of locking clips that are certified as meeting the ISO 12401 Standard for racing sailing tethers, World Sailing Small craft – Deck safety harness and safety line – Safety requirements and test methods, do not appear to comply with the portion of the standard (quoted below) that is used to establish that the hook can not easily release from a fixed attachment point by accident."

[Clipper 356]

I have spinlock.☹️

[splat 56]

Me too re spinlock but no fixed anchor points, just continuos jackline...they aren't cheap.

[2flit 52]

9 hours ago, Island Time said:

Im not sure that that IS is spinlock clip. This is;

Well I took my  image from a marine testing article that represented the clip as being Spinlock and the article was about the fiasco on the Clipper Ships Around the World man-overboard tether break. This is especially bad when you read the full  account linked on the Clipper site. This clipper ship had so many 'issues' aboard that one crew member left mid way in South America,  instead of continuing on his ( they cost up to $80,000) race around the world passage. 

I have compared the CrewSaver clips aboard our boat to the Spinlock my wife uses.  I did this just yesterday for the first time. Guess what? The Spinlock is  dramatically thinner when comparing the Spinlock to the CrewSaver clip.

Now... I have no idea of the tensile properties of the stainless in either of these clips, there are tremendous differences between the exact same looking stainless shackles when comparing standard shackles to H.R. (High Resistance) stamped shackles. So I can't say that the CrewSaver is way better. But it sure is about 30% to 40% thicker. There are allot of other issues involved here because the Clipper Ships switched to another brand of tether afterwards, arguably because they were concerned about the Spinlock brand..... However they then switched back to Spinlock for unstated reasons.  I would assume it could either be sponsorship issues, or more likely because the Spinlock clips are so easy to use (un-clipping and re-clipping).... but I have no idea

My point is >>  Why don't manufactures use  a clip that is stronger? 

It would be really easy to design one that withstands a much higher side load than 200 kg.

[2flit 52]

Here is an example of a clip that 'appears' to be able to withstand higher side loads. This is according to custom shop I corresponded with which makes custom tethers, atreeas, slings, and so forth. 

https://www.baselinemarine.com/shopexd.asp?id=6899

I think there may be other options, this is just the first I was made aware of

 

[2flit 52]

And this complete tether  (https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c4-components/f41-sailing-accessories/p764-elastictetherevodouble) tested much better. Here is a quote from Practical Sailor:

"To our testers surprise, off-center loads don’t have to be great to bend a snap hook open. In our tests, the Gibb-style hooks like the Spinlock Race Clip that Speirs was wearing began distorting under axial (side) loads as light as 275 pounds. At 300 pounds the hooks were fully open. As a comparison, carabiners used by rock climbers like the Kong Tango sustain loads up to 2,700 pounds before failure, and about 1,160 pounds when nose hooked."

So we go from 136 kg on a Spinlock up to 526 kg with the Kong tether clip. A 380% improvement.

[Start Me Up 4]

Here's the real spinlock and the later version is IT'S picture. KM absolutely correct on spotting this.

[DaveNoy 1]

Guessing it’s in reverse order to what you would think, given KM is asking the question.

Rope (strongest (2T break load ??)), 6mm chain. 8mm link, with the 10mm SS link being weakest.