Surveyer left boat with gelcoat cracks

[straycat 7]

Thought to bring to attention, and seek advice on gelcoat damage on our boat caused by intensive survey. The boat has been through 2 surveys and starting to show the damage. Even though our boat seems to be solidly built in GRP with no inside lining the Surveyer was intent on finding delamination by using a metal hammer to tap it out. Surely in this day and age they could do this without having to resort this brutal method. 

The last Surveyer was carrying it out for MOSS, which means they would have been using methods used on ferries , where as leisure craft are built a lot lighter.

Do Surveyers have liability insurance for us to be able to claim from?

Anyway I thought to highlight this to anyone intending to sell their vessel.

 

[straycat 7]

A sample of damage shown in images 

[Cantab 341]

last surveyor I was involved with use a nylon head hammer, was inspired to buy one myself before checking next yacht.

If you didn't authorize destructive testing for the survey I would be looking for some repair money, its not necessary to use a steel hammer, nor hit the hull that hard. The Surveyor is incompetent.

https://nzsafetyblackwoods.co.nz/en/thor-nylon-hammer-th708-25-25mm-each--00017476

[CarpeDiem 510]

53 minutes ago, straycat said:

A sample of damage shown in images 

That's shocking.  Who was the surveyor?  Did you agree to any terms and conditions which would allow for this level of destructive testing?

I note you said this was for MOSS, so any protections you would of had under consumer law are out the door.  Unless you agreed, either directly or indirectly, to expecting damage, I would be presenting them with a bill for the repairs.  Upon an unsatisfactory response, I would be submitting claim with the disputes tribunal.

[Bad Kitty 283]

Not making any excuses here, but apart from the chip by the stainless fitting, it looks like there's voids under all the damage?

Or is that just an optical illusion?

 

[Ex Machina 384]

4 hours ago, Bad Kitty said:

Not making any excuses here, but apart from the chip by the stainless fitting, it looks like there's voids under all the damage?

Or is that just an optical illusion?

 

Agree . I spent a few years spraying gelcoat and laminating and they look like voids . Not sure about the one with flecks of foam core ? 

[straycat 7]

7 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

consumer

Agree there are some voids but you get that in older well used boats. This boat has been in charter before, so did get a few bruises. These chips are on non structural areas, no reason to be hammering away in these spots. There are other areas with new chips as well.

It is only cosmetic but does devalue the boat, and possibly let water in. 

I cannot understand the rationale behind so much unnecessary hammering on what can be a fragile surface. I would expect the Surveyer to do some research on boats there are called to inspect, its design and construction method. There are other examples of him showing his incompetence.

[waikiore 440]

Bashing into gelcoat voids around cockpit seats etc sounds plain destructive, the one by the ss fitting shows he was hitting hard, the surveyors that I have observed over the years vary the tap dependent on the area and all use the standard small ball pein hammer with hickory handle . 

[aardvarkash10 1,065]

Is there not a more nuanced technology available these days?  I would have thought we have got past little men with hammers as a diagnostic technique.

Oh, there is.... https://www.qualitymag.com/articles/92050-ultrasonic-testing-of-fiberglass-and-carbon-fiber-composites

[straycat 7]

That’s more like it. But Maybe there is some special trade happening in 🔨 🙂

[mattm 106]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:22 PM, straycat said:

solidly built in GRP with no inside lining

 

Agree there are some voids but you get that in older well used boats.

It is only cosmetic but does devalue the boat, and possibly let water in. 

I cannot understand the rationale behind so much unnecessary hammering on what can be a fragile surface.

None of us were there to form a real opinion, and I’d be looking for answers if my boat ended up like that too. But, seen as you’ve asked, it’s easier for anyone to join either side. To play devils advocate- 

You do understand the ‘delamination’ surveyors are looking for are bubbles which have formed within the layup, not between the hull and an internal liner?

Also, how does being well used cause voids in the layup? Are you saying previous damage and repairs have left voids in the hull layup? I’d want to know about that if I was buying your boat. 
 

If it lets water in, it’s not cosmetic. 
 

As there shouldn’t be such voids, the hull shouldn’t be so fragile. Other than by the stanchion, each hole seems to have a void behind it, which would cause it to be far more fragile than it should. He is looking for deeper blisters than just under the gelcoat, so can see why he’d be hitting hard enough to crack a layer of gelcoat with nothing / little behind it. 

[straycat 7]

I should really get some pictures of cracks that are more concerning, where there are no voids. The boat has been surveyed before, never had these issues.

GRP experts will tell you that polyester substrate shrinks over time, and in some areas you will get those tiny voids with no issues with the substrate. None of those cracks have revealed moisture or substrate issue. Gelcoat is a fragile layer, try taking a metal hammer to it all over the boat and you will know, that is why Work boats and ferries are mostly constructed of metal as they can take the wear.

By taking in water I mean water into the substrate. Over time water can track into glass fibers ending up with a wet and heavy boat. This boat is constructed well and solid, it would take a drill to put a hole in it, not just a tap with hammer

Anyway...The broker went through it and is following up with the surveyor. Just like in any other trade, the surveyor should be liable for Any damage caused to a vessel as result of their actions. 

[dutyfree 170]

I have watched 5 surveyors, never seen one punch a hole.  They are in my experience tapping for sound i.e. dull thud, not hitting for destructive damage.

[waikiore 440]

Yes -though those voids were there all along not caused by polyester shrinking .

[James Newcombe 2]

As a surveyor, I only use a hard (steel) hammer below the water line and on teak decking. Nylon hammers are used anywhere else. We are listening for voids in the grp laminate. Still the best way to inspect. Second method is with the moisture meter as well and obviously, visual. That gelcoats getting tapped hard to fracture like that, however, without being there, it shows older, thinner gelcoat, and voids under. 

[straycat 7]

That sounds like a reasonable approach.
Just something for sellers to be aware of, that they may be left with gelcoat crazing/cracking if surveyed to this level. If hit hard, all gelcoat will crack, sinkers are the biggest culprits  . How does a Polyurethane painted boat fare, is hammer tapping done on them too.

[Addem 120]

Just had a survey yesterday. Jon Jones Whangarei used a wooden tap hammer (I checked before he started). He was Listening for sound changes not looking for deflection.