Heading to Barrier? Read this.

[kiwi_jon 26]

Whangaparapara harbour, Blind bay and Tryphena harbour are closed to fishing, shellfish collecting and anchoring.

 

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/biosecurity/major-pest-and-disease-threats/caulerpa-brachypus-a-non-native-seaweed/

[Zozza 293]

Completely unenforceable, as mad as Hone's checkpoints

[Jon 360]

I know someone that was there when it was announced 

A local come out in a small boat and gave them a serve

[aardvarkash10 960]

and that is the key to it.  When the community buys in, formal enforcement is nearly unnecessary.  

 

[Psyche 633]

18 hours ago, Zozza said:

Completely unenforceable, as mad as Hone's checkpoints

I disagree, it is not mad. Its an effort to contain an invasive species. Now that I know I will cruise elsewhere.

Maybe the cat is out is the bag but Barrier deserves a chance. 

 

[Fish 0]

You can still go boating there, launch boats etc, you just can't anchor or fish. I'd say the locals will support it, because it is effectively a fishing ban to stop 'Aucklanders' coming over and 'plundering their stocks'.

Mainly interested in the fuel wharf and water supply at Whangaparapara. I assume you'd need to borrow a mooring to stay overnight.

As to how it got there, MPI must be as thick as pig sh*t. The below is from the MPI site. It is endemic everywhere accept the Southern Ocean. Endemic in Aust & the Pacific... We've had record high water temps over the last few years. Snapper in Fiordland etc. The East Auckland current flows around Gt Barrier (I thought more east coast of Barrier, wonder if they've checked there yet). It would have gotten here by ocean currents.

Could you imagine the chaos if movement bans were imposed every time a land based exotic species was discovered? Wilding pines anyone? That myrtyl rust that was supposed to decimate our pohutukawa etc. M Bovis... Sars Cov 2 (that caused a big flap). Stink bugs, shield beetles.

There are so many exotic marine species I can't keep track. Other than fan worm, which was brought into Lyttleton in shipping bilge water, I'd bet you a good bottle of whisky 95% of the others are turning up in NZ on the Ocean Currents, and are a direct result of these marine heatwaves. If you suddenly get snapper in Fiordland, there are going to be 100's of other marine organisms turning up that haven't been noticed. 

Didn't a sea snake turn up on a beach recently? There was a turtle of Takapuna last weekend.

It is all well and good for the local tribe to ban fishing for a bit and make them feel important, but collectively it is a waste of time and resources trying to control nature.

 

Caulerpa brachypus is a seaweed native to the Indo-Pacific region, ranging from Africa to Australia, the Pacific Islands, and southern Japan. It is considered an invasive pest in Florida, United States, and Martinique in the Caribbean.

Caulerpa brachypus has fronds up to 10 cm long that rise from long runners or roots known as stolons.

In Australia, it grows below the tideline at between 6 and 10 metres on both hard surfaces and in sandy areas.

In favourable conditions, it can spread rapidly, forming vast, dense beds or meadows.

Caulerpa brachypus: a non-native seaweed | Biosecurity | NZ Government (mpi.govt.nz)

[Psyche 633]

Hang on a minute fish, Im on the phone to MPI now theres a team of oceanographers and marine biologists who have just thrown out all their research and are checking the comments section on Crew for guidance

[Black Panther 1,587]

Not sure that's justified.  I think that MPI could do a much better job of selling this by actually showing us the science behind it, then there would be no problem getting on board with it. Instead it was imposed without much explanation. 

Same with the now disappeared fan worm. 

[Psyche 633]

15 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

Not sure that's justified.  I think that MPI could do a much better job of selling this by actually showing us the science behind it, then there would be no problem getting on board with it. Instead it was imposed without much explanation. 

Same with the now disappeared fan worm. 

To be fair the first reaction is caution until they know what they are dealing with and yes it needs to be better publicised. Fish may well be right that its endemic and I cant really see how you can stop a marine pest spreading but I am not a scientist 

[Zozza 293]

Unless you are a Crewdotorg member, what other sailors and boaties would even know that a popular cruising destination such as Tryphena has been banned from anchoring?  99% of people are going to turn up and be confronted with locals roaring out to them and giving them a serve?
That will just raise tensions and cause incidents through utter lack of communication.
Someone tell me I am wrong....happy to hear all sides.

[Fish 0]

1 hour ago, Psyche said:

Hang on a minute fish, Im on the phone to MPI now theres a team of oceanographers and marine biologists who have just thrown out all their research and are checking the comments section on Crew for guidance

You don't have to have a degree in Biotechnology to apply logic Psyche. Just saying.

That, and if MPI did say it turned up naturally on ocean currents, what do you think the compliance rate would be?

If you are on the phone to them, I'm dead keen to know if they've checked around Medlands and Rakitu. I'd be gutted if Rakitu is off limits.

PS, are you having a laugh or having a pop? I can't pick up the subtlety over the web.

[El Toro 97]

I was planning on sailing from Waiheke direct to Tryphena, overnighting them picking up some people from the ferry the next day. 

Im short crewed so cant leave the boat, so if I cant anchor Im now goosed.

Its just simply more stupidly from people in windowless rooms down in Palmerston North.

Ive been told by a barrier stalwart that the weed has been there for years, 10 at least.

[Bad Kitty 252]

We've never eradicated a marine pest once it's been introduced.

That doesn't stop the crayon eaters in Wgtn spending eye watering amounts of money trying, like the tens of millions spend trying to kill off Undaria in the Chatam's where it was on the hull of a boat that sank.

Still there, plus all around the place now.

[harrytom 643]

Fish,you have forgotten the invasive Asian paddle crab in Ngungaru area. The pacific oyster has killed almost all our rock oysters and where did came from??Japan when the barges arrived to fit the nippon clippons on to the AK harbour bridge.

[Psyche 633]

I think the best case scenario is that the spread is slowed. Maybe they are just monitoring the growth rates to see how much of an issue it's going to be, perhaps avoiding anchoring those areas may stop it spreading all around the island in holiday season so what may have taken 20 years or more to reach the other side might be done in a few months with the holiday makers if left unchecked.

just thinking out loud, As I'm pretty sure you cannot get rid of it unless doing it manually, you can't mow it and you can't poison it

[Bad Kitty 252]

19 hours ago, Bad Kitty said:

We've never eradicated a marine pest once it's been introduced.

That doesn't stop the crayon eaters in Wgtn spending eye watering amounts of money trying, like the tens of millions spend trying to kill off Undaria in the Chatam's where it was on the hull of a boat that sank.

Still there, plus all around the place now.

And currently a dive team working in Fiordland, living on a large boat, new dive team heli's in each week for a changeover and back to manually killing Undaria.

 

[Fish 0]

14 hours ago, Psyche said:

I think the best case scenario is that the spread is slowed. Maybe they are just monitoring the growth rates to see how much of an issue it's going to be, perhaps avoiding anchoring those areas may stop it spreading all around the island in holiday season so what may have taken 20 years or more to reach the other side might be done in a few months with the holiday makers if left unchecked.

just thinking out loud, As I'm pretty sure you cannot get rid of it unless doing it manually, you can't mow it and you can't poison it

I'm thinking its more of a case of MPI being seen to be doing something. That and recreational boaties are an easy target. We don't have a powerful political lobby like commercial fishing that would kick up if they were disrupted.

If its come in naturally on ocean currents, anchoring is not going to have any appreciable effect on its spread. Especially as it has been reported to have been there for 10 years already. Climatic events will be the primary driver of spread or die off, warm years, cold years, algae blooms, la nina and the ocean currents are the biggest factor.

I am bemused though, does MPI have technical subject matter specialists? I'd be gobsmacked if MPI had a team of oceanograhers, let alone a marine biologist with any technical knowledge relevant to this weed. In a previous career I worked closely with the predicessor of MPI (MAF), and they certainly weren't known for technical subject specialists, they were all about administration and compliance. MPI's role is to administer Act's of Parliament (i.e. the Biosecurity Act). They have no mandate for critical thinking in their operations, which basically excludes anyone with technical knowledge thinking for themselves and making (or recommending) decisions.

All they can do is follow a pre-determined decision tree - find an incursion - consult with Iwi - impose some restrictions - apply for a budget to deal with it - do some more consultation - monitor it for a bit and make some reports, generally 6 to 18 months behind actual events - let the incursion run its natural course while maintaining ineffective restrictions - consult with Iwi some more - wait for the next new incursion to keep budget flowing.

[Psyche 633]

1 hour ago, Fish said:

I'm thinking its more of a case of MPI being seen to be doing something. That and recreational boaties are an easy target. We don't have a powerful political lobby like commercial fishing that would kick up if they were disrupted.

You are suggesting this is a political rather than scientific decision. To clarify since all decisons are political- this is not backed up with scientific data, reasoning at this point?

 

1 hour ago, Fish said:

If its come in naturally on ocean currents, anchoring is not going to have any appreciable effect on its spread. Especially as it has been reported to have been there for 10 years already. Climatic events will be the primary driver of spread or die off, warm years, cold years, algae blooms, la nina and the ocean currents are the biggest factor.

Maybe, if its been there 10 year and hasnt spread more than a few bays then that is good news as 10 years of boats travelling all over the island "should" have spread it everywhere. If ocean currents then why not everywhere all at once along that coast?

MPI do not know, so really this is speculation not fact

"How did this pest get to New Zealand?

It is not known how long this pest has been here or how it arrived. It may have been carried by a visiting international vessel or on a domestic vessel from another, as yet unidentified, infested area in New Zealand."

We do not know how long it has been in Aotea or the scale of the affected area.

1 hour ago, Fish said:

I am bemused though, does MPI have technical subject matter specialists? I'd be gobsmacked if MPI had a team of oceanograhers, let alone a marine biologist with any technical knowledge relevant to this weed. In a previous career I worked closely with the predicessor of MPI (MAF), and they certainly weren't known for technical subject specialists, they were all about administration and compliance. MPI's role is to administer Act's of Parliament (i.e. the Biosecurity Act). They have no mandate for critical thinking in their operations, which basically excludes anyone with technical knowledge thinking for themselves and making (or recommending) decisions.

Maybe but it would seem at odds with the number of stakeholders involved, no experts or checks and balances? https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/31917-The-New-Zealand-Government-Biosecurity-Response-Guide

So you are saying that everyone makes it up as they go along?

 

[Fish 0]

1 hour ago, Psyche said:

You are suggesting this is a political rather than scientific decision. To clarify since all decisons are political- this is not backed up with scientific data, reasoning at this point?

 

Maybe, if its been there 10 year and hasnt spread more than a few bays then that is good news as 10 years of boats travelling all over the island "should" have spread it everywhere. If ocean currents then why not everywhere all at once along that coast?

MPI do not know, so really this is speculation not fact

"How did this pest get to New Zealand?

It is not known how long this pest has been here or how it arrived. It may have been carried by a visiting international vessel or on a domestic vessel from another, as yet unidentified, infested area in New Zealand."

We do not know how long it has been in Aotea or the scale of the affected area.

Maybe but it would seem at odds with the number of stakeholders involved, no experts or checks and balances? https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/31917-The-New-Zealand-Government-Biosecurity-Response-Guide

So you are saying that everyone makes it up as they go along?

 

Yes, this decision is not backed up with any scientific data. It has not been formulated by critical thinking relevant to this incursion. It is based on a formulaic response. to prove my point, you have posted the formulaic response guide, thankyou for that, the NZ Govt Biosecurity Response Guide. This is a classic example of a 'National Plan' in a lovely, glossy document that has lots of charts and graphs and stuff, but doesn't really say or do anything.

As to the experts and checks and balances, referring to page 16 (copied below), this confirms by omission that there are no technical subject matter experts involved. Everyone but, it would appear.

This is perfectly normal for a govt Ministry. Have a look at what they are mandated to do. They need to administer the Biosecurity Act. No where in the Act does it say they need to determine the source of this outbreak. They just need to follow the lovely flow charts in the Response Guide. So if they don't need to determine the source of the outbreak, why would they assign budget to that?

To demonstrate this, MPI have not mentioned any further investigations, or studies etc. They haven't announced they've commissioned NIWA to investigate ocean current and sea temperature anomalies over the last 4 years with respect to this weed. That would be because they haven't done a thing to look into it. They certainly don't have a team of oceanographers and marine biologists on it. At best, they will have a couple of marine bio's that go for a dive and confirm the weed is still there...

Psyche, I fear you are approaching this far too logically. You think MPI is here to solve a problem. They are not, they are a govt ministry. They are here to administer only. There is no room for critical thinking or scientific endeavor (i.e. investigating the ocean currents and how this organism came to be here, or carrying out studies of its growth rates at various sea temperatures and salinity, something that is showing to be highly relevant for the fan worm).

When there is an incursion, they are required to respond to it. Note that this is different to fixing or resolving it. The easiest way to demonstrate that you have responded to it, is to hold some consultation, always with Iwi to tick the Treaty requirements box, and, if in doubt, impose some restrictions. To make life easy, and avoid any blowback on your political masters, never impose restrictions on anyone with influence, like industry. Especially the fishing industry.

This whole thing is a nonsense. But it looks very good and is very professional. The Comms and PR specialists are just cranking up now, with these restrictions popping up on my social media...

 

 

[Psyche 633]

Actually its pretty simple; an invasive species has been found in a few bays on GB there is a moratorium on anchoring etc until a long term response is developed. Bit of an inconvenience but we will survive.