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Rudder Bushings - Labour estimate


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Working with a boat builder to replace the siezed bushings in our Ross 830 in about a months time when we get it hauled out and put on the hard.

They estimate $500.00 for the replacment bushings and 16 hours labour.....

I was kind of expecting 5-8 hours labour, was I totally wrong?

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I recently did this, 33ft boat. no idea if the construction is similar but it took me a good 3 days to get the old ones out.

And my vesconite bushings were closer to 700 iirc

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16 hrs is not unrealistic. 2 days. Esp if that includes driving anywhere in Auckland traffic. Measuring, ordering and collecting new bearings. Getting the old ones out has a high variable time component, hence a degree of conservatism in the estimate I suspect.

We did our own rudder bearings. Easily 2 days of faffing, probably more. The work on the boat maybe 5-8 hrs, but the specifying, ordering and collecting add to that.

It is not that complicated a job, if you want to have a go yourself. The trickiest bit is measuring the rudder stock just right so you don't get slop or a tight rudder. I ended up taking the whole rudder to Henleys and they measured it for me. They were supplying the bearings (bushes) We ended up getting a new rudder tube in some fancy FRP that we just glued into the old one.

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Thanks guys. Being capable mechanically and wanting to get stuck in myself, I feel sure I could do this (especially) if someone experiance like Matt was mentioned for the odd gotcha with advice BUT time constraints with work, keeping it on the hard and paying for that etc.

It feels like we're caught between a rock and a hard place. So I think we'll just go for it commercially.

Damn Boats !!!

🤪

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Our rudder came out for a quick inspection. Was supposed to take an hour. 

  • 6 hours to get the damn thing out with pullers and gas torches
  • 3 days to repair a tiny crack at the top that we had no idea existed
  • 3 hrs to put it back in

Elapsed time was 5 days of hard stand fees... 

4 hours ago, Rgvkiwi said:

Damn Boats !!!

^^ this :)

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Always triple the time you "think" it will take -- trust me, after two recent refits I have come to know the harsh reality of this.

One point I would like to make is the question of 'travel time' , 'petrol money' etc etc

I once had to part out $240 travel time from North Shore to an Auckland suburb where my boat was at the time, to a rather well known 'osmosis expert' that spent no more than an hour at my boat.  That was a few years ago now, but I was new to the game of boats and the 'bring out another thousand' acronym, but not now...

So....make sure you set clear expectations of what you will and won't pay for.
To me, it's a weird thing with Tradesmen that they charge you for their travel time....I naively thought that how a tradesmen gets to a job is his problem not mine  - in the business world I come from, I could live in Hamilton and work in Auckland for example - and if I asked my boss to pay my travel time, he would tell me to get stuffed -- but the Tradie world is a completely different world and problem is, they all expect to be paid for Travel, so unless you find one close to your boat, be prepared to pay...and because demand currently for their services outstrips supply, you will have to pay their travel or they will tell you where to go....

.ps. Turns out my boat didn't have Osmosis...a $500+ fee though (including that aforementioned travel palava) LOL boats huh...

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Zozza touches on a point that both Businesses and Customers fail to do in NZ. Although it is changing, many need to catch up. In the past, we have all had the classic Kiwi attitude of trusting the other party with a handshake or simple nod of the head. But my past Rig installation headache, and a very recent situation involving someone else, has changed that for me. We need to start making contracts with he other party before work begins and clearly have both parties expectations clearly in writting.
The latest store, I have a mate that carried out electronic work on a new property. Installing CCTV and Audio/video etc. The initial job was about 18K wirth. While on the Job the owner came to hom and asked for additional things to be installed. Mate said no problem and went about doing it. Total job in the end was $60K. Client never paid. Mate took him to Court and Court ruled in Clients favor, stating that client never had additional work written into contract. I think that is sick.
And it didn't end there. The Builder also got shafted for $220K. Stupid thing is that the Client owns a major harware supply store. The Builder spends on average $1.5 mill per year with this store. Wait, let me re word that, DID! spend $1.5mill. He doesn't anymore.
It may well come back to bite the Client, because if he does this too often, Blenheim is too small a place and People have long memories. Business Owner now does everything under a written contract before work begins. Sad, but like most of us. We can't afford to be taken for rides like that.

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Pertinent story, thanks Wheels, and yep, I am one of those handshake and trusting 'ole Kiwi attitude fellas - but agree, it is getting to the stage now that some sort of formal agreement before the work is started is very wise..

Here is another thing to watch out for....lots of Tradesmen like boat builders, electricians etc, charge per hour per labourer -- I once wanted help to remove an inboard diesel from a boat some years back now...so while talking to the manager of the business I phoned, I asked "what is your hourly rate?" - he gave me the price. 

We then chatted about the job etc, and I had some sort of a brain flash from another sour experience I had previously, and asked him "by the way, that hourly rate, is that per hour for the job, or per tradesman per hour?"  -- he replied "ah yeah per tradesman per hour" -- (he decided during the course of our convo that sending out two guys to help me was best).  I can't remember the price he gave me as was a few years ago now, something like $80 per hour, which essentially became $160 per hour once I established that I was expected to pay both of his guys for the hour, not a set rate for his business' service per hour

So, be careful out there, and don't be afraid to ask for exact details when it comes to what you are going to be charged.
 

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Well, working around Auckland a LOT of time is spent travelling. Travelling costs money and reduces the available hours to work. I work a lot in Gulf Harbor. I don't charge travel time for that - as I live and work there. However, I charge for travel away from here, as if I was not doing that, I'd be getting my rate from local work. 

Surely you'd not be saying that I should reduce my income just to work on your boat?  Oh, and hourly rate is per person - same deal, if I have to pay a worker to help with a 2 person job, should I reduce my income for that? Do you get a pay reduction if you need two people for a job at work?

You must be realistic...

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Daughter is a piano tuner. Used to tune 6 pianos a day 8 years ago. Just prior to covid that was 4 per day thanks to Auckland traffic. She put her prices up, and is trying to find a fair way to charge for travel. 

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1 hour ago, Zozza said:

once I established that I was expected to pay both of his guys for the hour, not a set rate for his business' service per hour

So, be careful out there,
 

Ahh…. Right…..

So if you went to a business that had 20 staff, which might all get involved in a major project, but your job will require 2, would you like a rate for ‘his business’ services’ same as the job needing all 20 staff, or per person on your job? 

If you think that meant he was ripping you off, I feel bad for him. 

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With the boat I do everything I can to help. Cheaper to pay for a day at a nearby marina than pay for travel, do it. Can I remove what needs work and take it to a workshop then reinstall myself? Can I do it myself with instruction? 

This can save thousands. 

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There businesses then there are businesses.  Recently had topside painted. They gave a competitive quote based on long conversation about what I wanted and expected.  They did a great job and I paid. Both parties happy.

A few years back asked for a quote from a nearby business. Agreed. When the bill came it was nearly 6x higher than quote.  Reason: oh we thought we'd do this other work as well. Never been back and tell others to steer clear.

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At a place I worked, a guy once came in and brought a basic stereo for his boat, about $120 worth. After paying for it, asked if one of the electricians would be able to come down and fit it before he went out (that afternoon). We changed work plan, did it straight away, spent a total of 2 hours installing the stereo, fixing numerous other electrical issues, using numerous parts, and teaching him to use his electronics. At the end, he didn’t want to pay for the time or extra bits, thought all the extra would be covered by buying the stereo, profit margin of maybe $15. 
 

I guess there are customers and there are customers too. Goes both ways. 
 

I guess the moral is, expectations need to be set at the start, especially if it’s the first job being done between the two parties, subsequent jobs should be easier as long as initial expectation and performance and maintained. If you have totally no idea how things work, you should certainly ask, and not be sad after about a completely industry standard practice happening if you don’t. 

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4 hours ago, mattm said:

Ahh…. Right…..

So if you went to a business that had 20 staff, which might all get involved in a major project, but your job will require 2, would you like a rate for ‘his business’ services’ same as the job needing all 20 staff, or per person on your job? 

If you think that meant he was ripping you off, I feel bad for him. 


I established, with my prompting not his, that the rate was not an hourly rate his business charged as he seemed to indicate, but a 'per labourer' rate for each hour worked.

Without my probing, I would have got a rude shock when I got the bill at double to the "hourly rate" he advised.

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26 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Hourly rates are always "per man hour". That is standard practice.

I did not know that.  I bet there are other punters from the general public who would not know that either.  That is why I am saying it pays to ask and set clear dilenations of what the breakdown of the bill will be....to me that should be the Tradesman advising that and not just expecting his would be customer know the 'standard practice'.

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