Island Time 1,174 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 ANCHOR WATCH Maritime NZ has declared all vessels must keep watch at anchor at all times. This was in response to a question about their new watchkeeping guidelines for fishing vessels. MNZ Director Kirstie Hewlett confirmed yesterday at the Marine Transport Association conference that ALL vessels, including recreational boats must keep a watch at anchor. What are your thoughts? You can read their position here https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/content/commercial/safety/watchkeeping-on-vessels/documents/watchkeeping-regulatory-approaches-commercial-vessels.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funlovincriminal 134 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Ha ha Good luck with enforcing that particular gem 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 322 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Doesnt the position just refer to commercial vessels though? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,497 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 You do have to wonder at the people who write all this stuff. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 56 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 So that's game over for single handing. Even for the small vessel commercial guys productivity and overall safety will be worse without proper rest. Are you insured if you don't have a watch keeper? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 534 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Quote Scope of this document This document applies to lookout and watchkeeping requirements on commercial vessels, with a particular focus on fishing vessels. It does not apply to engineer watches While they mention recreational vessels in the opening section this seems aimed squarely at the commercial sector, and not keeping lookout is a problem that we have discussed here with vessels on autohelm. Quote Maritime NZ’s regulatory position on Maritime Rule 22.5 Maritime Rule 22.5, requires “Every vessel must at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions” At ‘all times’ means during the day and night when travelling to and from fishing grounds, when fishing, and while at anchor or drifting. To keep a proper lookout by sight and hearing as well as by all means available operators must use their eyes, ears, and any available navigational equipment to keep track of where the vessel is and if there is any risk of collision. Using one method may not be enough. Appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions means operators must think about what is required for the conditions, for example, the weather, visibility, and how close other vessels are. For example, an increased level of lookout may be required in bad weather Common sense for all vessels 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 This is nothing new it's always been the case. It's a legal requirement. It applies to every vessel of every size of every use. From a Kayak to a tinny, to a private yacht to a commercial fishing vessel to a oil tanker. NZ Insurance companies have and will continue to randomly refuse payouts where boats at anchor have collided. Either with an non-anchored boat, with another anchored boat or with the land. And the watchkeeper was neglectful. International laws to which NZ is a signatory clearly require anchored vessels to take all reasonable steps to avoid collision. Sounding a horn, paying out more warp, screaming at the top of your voice, starting your engine and spinning the boat on the anchor all are options. It looks like this particular document has been written with commercial vessels in mind and as a reminder to the commercial fleet. But make no mistake, the underlying legislation apples to all vessels in NZ territorial waters. Bottom line, legally, nothing has changed. What has changed is a few more people people are now aware of their legal obligations. People will continue to sleep at anchor just like people will continue to use a cell phone while driving. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,174 Posted May 5 Author Share Posted May 5 She specifically stated this included private recreational vessels. Previously this was a requirment when underway... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 55 minutes ago, Island Time said: She specifically stated this included private recreational vessels. Previously this was a requirment when underway... Where does the sentence 'Previously this was a requirment when underway...' come from? It's not in the press-release. Are these your words or did Director Kirstie Hewlett actually say these words? I would be highly surprised if there has ever been an official position statement from MNZ that recreational vessels only needed to keep a watch while underway. Because the legislation doesn't say that and it would be highly unlikely for MNZ to provide any advice to the contrary. This sounds to me like an 'old wives tale' similar to the one which says the police will only write you a ticket if you're 10% over the speed limit. Or that other one which says, you won't get a ticket for using your cell phone while stopped at the traffic lights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
motorb 10 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said: the police will only write you a ticket if you're 10% over the speed limit. Well that was indeed the case which is why the "Zero tolerance" weekends were to such fanfare. Additionally there was a court case over it where a judge ruled in favor of a cheeky defendant, and since then the police have made a statement that such a practice is no longer to be expected. As for cellphones, I've seen zero enforcement from police. Same for red light running, and frankly, traffic enforcement overall has definitely dropped off a bit the last few years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 1 hour ago, motorb said: Well that was indeed the case which is why the "Zero tolerance" weekends were to such fanfare. Additionally there was a court case over it where a judge ruled in favor of a cheeky defendant, and since then the police have made a statement that such a practice is no longer to be expected. As for cellphones, I've seen zero enforcement from police. Same for red light running, and frankly, traffic enforcement overall has definitely dropped off a bit the last few years. Are you are referring to the case where the defendant was doing 57 in a 50 zone? He didn't win he still had to pay the fine - but the judge agreed with him that police messaging was inconsistent because of the zero-tolerance story and the judge demanded that police get their story straight and stop sending inconsistent messages to the public. The police claimed that they never published any formal tolerance and instead that it was individual officer discretion. Thus if the Director of MNZ, or any other government official has been making statements like keeping a watch at anchor doesn't apply to recreational boaties then that message is inconsistent with the law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Who flys the anchor shape, when at anchor? who actually has one? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 19 minutes ago, Steve Pope said: Who flys the anchor shape, when at anchor? who actually has one? I have to confess I don't even know what shape that shape is... so not me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 It is of a round ball appearance and is black, no less than .6 of a metre in diameter flown on the forepart of the deck. They are generally 2 flat discs that are keyed together to appear as a ball. Being flat they stow well when not in use. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 European insurance Co's love you for not having one if custard arrives and you want to put in a claim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 534 Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 3 hours ago, Steve Pope said: Who flys the anchor shape, when at anchor? who actually has one? Everyone I know thinks the anchor shape looks like a glass with rum in it 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,174 Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Anchor Balls are commonly used in some countries, but here mostly only by larger commercial vessels. The actual international rule is: “STCW Code,Part A, Chapter VIII. If the Master considers it necessary, a continuous navigational watch shall be maintained at anchor. “ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 STCW isn't law. It's a convention the purpose of which is to produce seafaring clones that have a minimum level of transferable standard and skills so they can jump on any boat. NZ, being a party to the STCW, is legally obliged to produce training and certification programs that align with the STCW. INTERNATIONAL REGULATIONS FOR PREVENTING COLLISIONS AT SEA - also not a law unto itself but rather a list of laws that signatories are legally required to implement in there local legislation. Rule 5 Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. Which has been implemented as Rule 22 in the NZ Maritime Act - as verbatim. That's our local law that we have to comply with which includes when we're overseas flying our colours under the protection of the King. With regard STWC I am not aware that it holds any value in NZ for recreational sailors. I had a guy with flash STWC certs, life raft training that included being afloat in the Pacific with 3 other people for 4 days. YNZ wouldn't accept it for cross credit... Against sea survival. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,174 Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Cross crediting martime certificates in NZ is a nightmare. YNZ don't accept maritime NZ certs and vice versa. Coastguard accept some but not all. Its this stupid; If you want an RYA cert to be commercial you need the STCW base pack (fire fighting, first aid, survival etc) that you can get at Mahurangi tech. The RYA cert is not recognized by MNZ (except as a pre-requisite for the Master Yacht <24m commercial ticket), but they do recognize the STCW certs. The STCW stuff is required by MNZ for pretty much any of their tickets. Sea time required for RYA tickets is not accepted by MNZ - except that if you have RYA Offshore master, you don't need any further sea time for the NZ Yacht Master <24m. That time is not able to be used for any of the lesser local (SRL etc) tickets in NZ. STCW is the commercial standard of most international seafarer training. NZ uses this, and the Colregs, as well as SOLAS. YNZ is a small, amateur sailing organization at the bottom of the world. No one cares what they think, and being a private entity, they can make their own rules... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 355 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Completely rediculous. Isn't there some Coastguard RYA/MCA certification available in NZ which has worldwide recognition but MaritimeNZ refuse to recognise it? YNZ seem to be aligned with Coastguard. While Coastguard and MaritimeNZ refuse to acknowledge each other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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