col j 0 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 onto something there marshy. its also extra windage, bigger deck gear, harder to manage. force 11 has its leward gunnel in the water motoring across 40 knots. could always take 50-100kg out of the bulb to be a bit lighter and use the weight/water on the rail. only needs to have enough stability to pass whatever category you want to get to. weight on a fixed keel doesnt do alot untill you lean over. the futher you lean, the more it does and because that mini is such a wide arsed thing it will start working harder again when you lean over more and start going sideways Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Tell me this. How does it look if an Apprentice Carbon Boatbuilder/Sparmaker goes and puts a second hand alloy shitter rig on his boat, especially if he shows absolutely not even the slightest ambition to build a carbon one for it? And why do you look at spending vast sums of money to get a new boat in the water and try to skimp on one of the most important aspects of a sailing boat, the rig ? Yes AA to making it simple and cheap but not at the expense of going sailing and having everything constantly breaking. Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 386 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Tim, with his track record if I were you I'd be encouraging him to use anything other than your product or maybe you can use it as a test to destruction R & D program Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 How does it look if an Apprentice Carbon Boatbuilder/Sparmaker goes and puts a second hand alloy shitter rig on his boat When I were a lad, being an apprentice meant you considered yourself lucky if you had the money to own a second-hand shitter anything. Anyway that rig - in its former days as a one-piece - has won a Coastal, has it knot? Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Tim, are you saying he shouldn't put in a second hand alloy rig which is within his most probably very limited budget, yet he doesn't want to build a carbon one? I'm sure that even at staff rates a carbon one will take him a long time to build, & he'll be short of the knowledge to build it. I merely suggested the alloy one will get him sailing. He can build a carbon one later, when time, budget, & expertise all allow. I'm not saying alloy is better, but they're tried and true and this one advertised fits best with Jordans biggest issue - his budget. Crikey ,at 16 odd to be building his first keel boat? Incredible! Time will tell if he finishes it - I hope he does. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 timmy the first rig you had was plywood! i cant afford a carbon rig on $4.50 an hour Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm with Tim on this one. There should be some some kind of push to get a carbon rig on the 6.5. There's always date expired fibre floating around going cheap. You'd probably only need 20kg for that boat and it would be a really great learning experience for an apprentice to do his own rig. It's pretty easy really. Sure, you can put the alloy one in and then do a carbon one in a few years. But why would you want to do the job twice? All going well I'll have a reasonable mandrel and some nice spreader moulds for WT in the near future. They should be suitable enough for a non class 6.5. The young fella is welcome to use them if he wants to have a go at a rig. I'm sure Tim would be more than happy to help out. So it won't be a cock up. For $1k of fibre and a few days work why wouldn't you?! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 My guess its the 1K bit is why he wouldn't - just now. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Where there's a will there's a way, or a relative. Make it out of scrap even. The most expensive part of the whole prosess is the tooling, and I've just offered him that for FREE Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 And often the change from an alloy rig to a carbon one means a new main as the bend charateristics are seldom the same. Do it once do it right i agree. But somehow dont think that is how this boat will turn out. Think its more a piece it together from what is around and free and go sailing. Bit of a frankenstein boat on a budget. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 lets weigh up the options... spend a grand and labour to make a carbon mast only to have it fall over the side in 5 months... or get a $250 complete alloy rig... and mainsail luff cruve is of no issue to me as i plan on getting a second hand 8.5 main. im never going to get this thing to perform upwind so i may aswell forget about that and focus on the downwind performance. tim stop being a grumpy bugger! Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron 90 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Jeez... if I ever wanted a Hall Spars rig I would now specify that you have NOTHING to do with it as you believe a rig built by you would only last 5 months ! Go on back yourself ! I think Tim is onto it. Built your own mast... do it right and it will be stronger, faster and not all that expensive (given the resources at your disposal). Finally a taller rig will potentially increase speed in the light but ultimate top speed will be lower. Max speeds are generally set with small sails in windy conditions. Small sails have less drag and any mast sticking above the sails (cause you have a fractional kite on and a reefed main) is only slowing you down. I'm not saying don't go big...just don't get to greedy and overdo it Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Off topic slightly... but If you need a rudder stock...I have a rather nice stainless unit that would take a blade- It came off a Dibley 8m (Spring loaded) that got reworked. If you can use it- It's your if you take us for a blat when the jobs done. I don't recall there being any rudder floating about KM's back yard.......for this boat. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I think he's sick in the head not doing it. He'd build it for sod all then even if he didn't finish that boat he'd have a nice rig that he could sell on and make some cash. And since Tim has given him so much grief he pretty much has to help him out building it now. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Arent we missing something here guys? The boat hasnt even got a keel, deck, rudder or even bulkheads... A mast is miles away so why dont we encourage him to practice his carbon work and get the boat a little closer to launching before worrying about a mast? Surely some time in the next year or how ever long it will take, will pop up as a "Second" at halls or somewhere and present itself as an opportunity... Get the boat half built before worrying about masts and sails i reckon. If the mast seems expensive now the whole projects budget will seriously frighten ya - That coming from someone sailing his own 26footer as a rigger who can do most things! They suck the money up so worry about getting it floating first. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Arent we missing something here guys? The boat hasnt even got a keel, deck, rudder or even bulkheads... A mast is miles away so why dont we encourage him to practice his carbon work and get the boat a little closer to launching before worrying about a mast? Surely some time in the next year or how ever long it will take, will pop up as a "Second" at halls or somewhere and present itself as an opportunity... Get the boat half built before worrying about masts and sails i reckon. If the mast seems expensive now the whole projects budget will seriously frighten ya - That coming from someone sailing his own 26footer as a rigger who can do most things! They suck the money up so worry about getting it floating first. With ya there Marshy- Get the boat floating before worrying about thr Rig or Sails..... Smokey was in the water for about 6 months with no Rig while I hunted for the Money and motivation to attack that phase. I hate to think how much has been spent now on my "bargain" purchase. Way more than I can sell it for! Mind- I can't think of any project I've done that hasn't cost me a small fortune- whilst doing a fairly large chunk of the work myself! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Yes it is easy to over capitalise on a boat eh. When I bout my SR Aqua Vitae (it was called Lane Hopper back then, we hated the name, called it drain stopper, brain flopper etc) it cost me 20K, by the time I sold it for 27K it owed me 42K. Had it 5 years so 3K per year of ownership - cheap boating. No matter what he does to the boat JH isnt looking at a money making concern, so he may as well do it as cheap as possible and get sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 So JH..>Do you want/need a rudder stock....? Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Wont a mini have two rudders? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Good point.... However one long rudder might be a cost effective alternative? Link to post Share on other sites
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