Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Still looks salvageable Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sure is a testament to the design and build of the ship for it to have withstood the battering it has taken over the past months. Shame it had idiots in charge. Doesn't matter what happens to the Captain and First Officer in court, nothing can help recompense the owners of the cargo, people of the Bay and the damage to that beautiful reef. Follow this link http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ and search on Tauranga as a port. The Rena is north of Motiti Is. The Go Canopus is standing by the wreck (if not actually attached to the stern section). One of the theories around is she will attempt to tow the stern into shallower water off Papamoa Beach once is frees itself. The Port does not want the mess inside the harbour (nor does anyone else) You to can follow Rigger in his endeavours to help clean up the mess. Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Local Oz radio has just reported that "authorities are gearing up for another oil spill and significant container debri hitting the beaches"..... bummer Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 It would be very interesting to see a list of the goods taken from the crews and officers quarters.... as well as the galley following the captains b/day party I presume the crew are back home looking for work. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Waihi Beach Coastguard report this morning that there are navigational hazards - 3 containers within the Katikati harbour - spewing debris. One on Mussel Rock - one of the entrance ways into the harbour. And a further 3-5 containers reported in the water off the beach and/or stranded on the main Waihi Beach. Glad I didn't go out early today in the laser as planned. Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 My parents live at Waihi Beach and say there are milk powder sacks everywhere. Beach is now closed as apparently a "pig farmer from Raglan" had been loading up the milk powder sacks this morning. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This may have been answered already but: Is it not legal to salvage in NZ? Do we not have salvage rights here? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 No The goods still belongs to the original owner. It is theft. Unlike the UK where it is legal to remove anything you can carry or remove from the beach without any machinery. Scary to think anyone would actually want to use any foodstuffs from the ship Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone else finding the marinetraffic.com AIS not working around the Tauranga area? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone else finding the marinetraffic.com AIS not working around the Tauranga area? Yip! they don't want you seeing what "little" action they are taking. Go Canopus is hiding! Actually, what happened to their plan to have the BIG tug tied to the Aft peice and tow it ashore when it broke free? Seems the plan is to have no plan and string this puppy out and keep taking the $$$$$'s. Who Peer reviews these guys?? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone else finding the marinetraffic.com AIS not working around the Tauranga area? Yip! they don't want you seeing what "little" action they are taking. Go Canopus is hiding! Actually, what happened to their plan to have the BIG tug tied to the Aft peice and tow it ashore when it broke free? Seems the plan is to have no plan and string this puppy out and keep taking the $$$$$'s. Who Peer reviews these guys?? Its kind of hard to have a tug tied to a ship in a 4-5m swell. I know I wouldnt go out there and do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It pisses me off that the law limits their (the owners and/or the operator's) liability re. the wreck and the environmental damage, AND protects their property rights re. stuff washing up. If a container washes up on a beach and ruins the beach and/or the coastal fishery, once their liability cap has been reached then they're off the hook, legally (although admittedly they can voluntarily do something they are not required to). If a container is partially submerged and someone's boat hits it, or it hits someone's boat - once their liability cap is reached, they're legally off the hook. Or if containers and/or part of the wreck happen to sink in a harbour entrance creating a semi-permanent navigational hazard... BUT, when stuff washes ashore people can be arrested for stealing their stuff, because the law protects their property rights? That's starting to bug me. A lot. I am not suggesting this case involved a boat being deliberately grounded, although it might have been. Or, leaving deliberate grounding's aside, negligent groundings. But in such cases, were they to hypothetically happen here, it's just not acceptable to me that they would not be accountable for the full cost of the resultant mess. It chaps my hide that their property rights are protected but our coastline, our boats, our fisheries and our everything can be screwed up... Grrrrrrrrr. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 AIS is still down. This happens once in a while down here. The Go Canopus is a rig support tug with all sorts of positioning stuff on board that lets it hold station, so connecting it to the boat is a scary as first thought. Most of us can't even comprehend that sort of technology. The issue of ownership of the container contents is NZ law, nothing to do with the shipping companies. Still a major piss off with all the crap washing up on the coastline. This has been circulated to all club members Boaties advised to stay off the water For immediate release: 11am, Monday 9 January 2012 Bay of Plenty Regional Council advises boaties to stay off the water due to the large amount of debris and containers in the coastal waters following the Rena breaking up. Any boaties who head out should be extremely vigilant and aware of the risk of hitting floating and submerged items. The Harbour Master has established a cautionary area in the western Bay of Plenty, which includes the area from Waihī Beach to Mayor Island to Maketū. All vessels in this area are recommended to navigate with extreme caution. All vessels should proceed at slow speed, keep a good lookout and travel through the area in daylight only. The debris field is extensive and its movement is unpredictable and could extend further. The current Rena exclusion zone remains in place until further notice – a three nautical mile radius around Astrolabe Reef. This will be reviewed on a daily basis and may be extended as more information is collected. Anyone found in the exclusion zone without the express permission of the harbourmaster may face fines or prosecution. Regional Council has been advised that beaches have not been closed, however swimmers are also urged to stay out of the water due to the large amount of debris washing up. The Port of Tauranga continues to be fully operational and is communicating directly with ships coming into and exiting the harbour around navigational safety. It is important to notify Maritime New Zealand immediately, by calling 0800 645 774 if you see oil in the water, or 0800 333 771 if you see containers or debris coming ashore. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 BUT, when stuff washes ashore people can be arrested for stealing their stuff, because the law protects their property rights? That's starting to bug me. A lot. The cargo no longer belongs to the Owner/s nor the shipping company. It now belongs to the Salvage company that has claimed salvage. They then sell it back to the rightfull owner if that owner wants to buy it, which is the reward of salvage to the salvage company. If the cargo is written off, then the insurance company pays out. Which in this case, you may want your cargo lost, as the Salvage company us asking 80% of the value as the salvage reward. Which means that if you were the owner, you had to pay for the goods, then you have to pay 80% of that value again to get it and I would assume, that because the goods were salvaged, the Insurance company does not have to pay. Cargo washed up on the beach not being free to plunder is world wide law, not just NZ law. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I very much doubt anyone has or even could claim salvage rights. To do that inside a economic zone is near impossible. So to answer a earlier question - No,there is no point grabbing stuff and claiming salvage, you will lose that one in court. Salvage is a tricky thing and getting clean 'salvage rights' is trickier again. The Skipper could grant salvage rights but I very much doubt he did as it would probably be a H/Q call and at the time the boat was attached to NZ. By the time Skipper realised the boat was there to stay others were in on the act so a random salvage call would have been out of the question I would expect. You probably find it's a/the/some insurance companies and/or the NZ Govt and/or the actual owners of the goods. Having asked one or 2 it seems as clear as mud and I get the impression no one really knows just how this is all going to pan out with regards to salvage costs. But I'm pretty sure us taxpayers will be fronting with something. The major bummer is that anyone with goods on that ship may have to help pay the clean up bill. That silly rule is in the same International convention, most countries have signed, covering international freighting, that limits costs against the owners. Pretty cool don't ya think................... KNOT!! Again NZ's best interests have been pushed aside due to dumbarsed NZ politicians signing an agreement without thinking................ yet again. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I very much doubt anyone has or even could claim salvage rights. To do that inside a economic zone is near impossible. So to answer a earlier question - No,there is no point grabbing stuff and claiming salvage, you will lose that one in court. Salvage is a tricky thing and getting clean 'salvage rights' is trickier again. The Skipper could grant salvage rights but I very much doubt he did as it would probably be a H/Q call and at the time the boat was attached to NZ. By the time Skipper realised the boat was there to stay others were in on the act so a random salvage call would have been out of the question I would expect. You probably find it's a/the/some insurance companies and/or the NZ Govt and/or the actual owners of the goods. Having asked one or 2 it seems as clear as mud and I get the impression no one really knows just how this is all going to pan out with regards to salvage costs. But I'm pretty sure us taxpayers will be fronting with something. The major bummer is that anyone with goods on that ship may have to help pay the clean up bill. That silly rule is in the same International convention, most countries have signed, covering international freighting, that limits costs against the owners. Pretty cool don't ya think................... KNOT!! Again NZ's best interests have been pushed aside due to dumbarsed NZ politicians signing an agreement without thinking................ yet again. Well said that man Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ....just on the AIS thng... It relies on a shore bassed VHF radio station to recieve and then down load the information to the web site in Greece. These shore bassed stations are usualy volunteer and may include private individuals or educational institutes such as a maritime colledge etc. This is why the AIS stops once you get passed a certain distance from shore. (VHF range aprox 50 KM with no repeater). The marine traffic web site has become more full of adds and has less map site recently....much as I thank them for the service, it is really anoying !!! I now use the KLM file on google earth....not only do you get a full screen, you also get the easier to use sat pic to work with (or use the map if you wish). I used this to watch a few of the Sydney to hobart boats who had AIS in the early stages (Brindebella for one)... It was VERY interesting to see the delays in the position reports. The difference between the AIS, then 10 min behind the rolex site....and then the rolex feed to google (another KLM file). a further ten minutes. I dont know what the laws are with concern to turning off AIS on a ship that is normaly required to run it.........but it would also be interesting to know. I am quite sure that war ships turn theres on and off !! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Maybe the station in Tauranga is the Port Company and they don't want us to watch what is going on. Is this the start of another conspiracy theory? Or do I need to go and sleep? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It pisses me off that the law limits their (the owners and/or the operator's) liability re. the wreck and the environmental damage, AND protects their property rights re. stuff washing up. If a container washes up on a beach and ruins the beach and/or the coastal fishery, once their liability cap has been reached then they're off the hook, legally (although admittedly they can voluntarily do something they are not required to). If a container is partially submerged and someone's boat hits it, or it hits someone's boat - once their liability cap is reached, they're legally off the hook. Or if containers and/or part of the wreck happen to sink in a harbour entrance creating a semi-permanent navigational hazard... BUT, when stuff washes ashore people can be arrested for stealing their stuff, because the law protects their property rights? That's starting to bug me. A lot. I am not suggesting this case involved a boat being deliberately grounded, although it might have been. Or, leaving deliberate grounding's aside, negligent groundings. But in such cases, were they to hypothetically happen here, it's just not acceptable to me that they would not be accountable for the full cost of the resultant mess. It chaps my hide that their property rights are protected but our coastline, our boats, our fisheries and our everything can be screwed up... Grrrrrrrrr. I'm with you brother. For me this whole situation and the recovery of the oil and containers has been very fortunate due to the good weather experienced until 3 days ago. If this weather had hit just after the grounding there would be some very pissed off people still cleaning all that oil today and probably for months to come. The Govt and it agencies would have been strung up and the bill will be biger than texas! The good weather has made this whole disaster look a lot better than it is. The initial response was slow. but the weather has saved their bacon. Yesterday the salvage Co was talking about getting helicopoter to pluck the containers from the sea onto a barge? Why was this not an option from Day one?.... After all Telecom could do it years ago with their stupid XT add As for liability, well i believe no ship should enter NZ water witout full and comprehensive insurance cover.and... In the wash up (excuse the pun) it will be found that Maritime NZ was under resourced, under funded, and run by people well out of their depth... Watch this space. Link to post Share on other sites
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