Ship hit Astrolabe Reef, Tauranga

[Guest]

We used to run a very strong look after the environment programme but don't bother these days as we pay someone to do it for us. Some SOE called ETS.

 

Actually joking aside, NZers gets screwed to look after it's 0.00000001% of the environments bad stuff we cause................ only for it to be totally negated by one dude parking a big ship on a rock. I want a refund!!!

[wheels 543]

I too was shocked to hear there was a limit to liability to such an environmental disaster. And only 12mill is pitence these days. The accident maybe a mess, but it could be a lot lot worse also. In my view, they should be resposible for cleaning up the mess no matter what the cost. There is a new limit, but apparently NZ did not sign the thing. Why should a country have to sign something to set a limit.

And as for Goff accusing National of dropping the ball on on not signing, well both are in the same boat. The shipowner's liability was determined by the limits of the Limitation of Liability for Maritime Claims Convention 1976, which were the limits specified in the Maritime Transport Act.

A 1996 protocol which updated the 1976 convention, contained the revised liability limits(about $24million), which came into force in May 2004.

Neither Labour nor National passed this into law - this could have been done any time since 1996 with effect in 2004.

[darkside 61]

From the mount summit today. Perhaps a bag of milk powder? There was what looked like a liner bag in amongst it

[rigger 47]

see : http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena ... wound-down

 

The government fund that will help pay for the Rena clean-up has been purposefully depleted for years after it was decided there were too few oil spills to warrant its large balance.

 

A leading maritime academic has called the decision to reduce the fund "foolish and shortsighted" and said successive governments had placed little priority on the maritime environment.

 

The Oil Pollution Fund – made up from levies collected from the maritime and oil industry – is expected to be almost completely drained in the Rena clean-up.

 

A decade ago, the Oil Pollution Fund contained about $12 million but now totals only $4m after a decision was made by then transport minister Mark Gosche to draw the account down. The purpose of the fund is to have sufficient cash rapidly available in case of an oil spill and all ships over 24m long or weighing more than 100 tonnes must contribute. What they pay is decided by the gross tonnage of the ship and not their "threat" level – an issue currently subject to review.

 

[Guest]

If ( and it is a big if) we get out of this relatively unscathed, I would like to think that instead of congratulating ourselves on a job well done, we realize that we had dodged a massive bullet, more like a bloody cruise missile. Then take the opportunity to remedy some of the glaring cock ups that have come to light.

Unfortunately I have no faith in our politicians to do so.

[Guest]

If we can put pressure on the owners to be liable for any damage and the full extent of the damage that would scare them into making sure this type of thing is a lot less likely.

I'm really concerned about the story in the press about the containers following the Auckland current around the east cape and maybe to the Wairarapa coast. Surely they could do a search for these and place AIS beacons aboard as well as lights and flags. Or maybe have a team that could cut the top somehow to sink them.

Or maybe we could put a pointy end on and a mast as they seem to be unsinkable.

[wheels 543]

I am really concerned now that they are taking about 6tonnes of oil an hr. That is plain and simple too slow. That is weeks of sucking and too great a risk of more bad weather making the situation worse. I think we have alreay dodged many bullets and certainly are still looking at the pointy end of a missle.

[too_tall 15]

yeah, 6T/hour is pretty slow - I can't understand why they have not got parallel systems in operation. And what happened to the 50T/hour???

 

Has anyone got an answer to my question of a while back - can they not thin the heavy fuel oil with some form of solvent? Surely, that is possible. After all - I have seen my Uncle washing the oil off his boots by simply spraying engine degreaser onto them, the oil did what most oils do with degreaser on them, it became very thin and ran off!.

[Steve Pope 243]

The Awanuia must have heating to keep the oil liquid, why can't they pipe hot water back to the Rena using a tube setup to heat the oil and make the pumping easier, a bit like an immersion heater.

I had wondered why they only are using one pumping setup, apparently they are now considering having 2 pumps on the go, why not 10?? Is it perhaps that there aren't any more in the country??

And who was the clever Pollie that decided to draw down the oil recovery fund as it was never likely to be needed, All shipping paid into the levy fund, criminal sleight of hand maybe ???

[johnMi 2]

Patience people

If it's six tonne an hr I reckon that's great going, that's only 150 hrs left, or about a week.

(I think you're a bit optimistic with 6 tonnes, but I hope you're right.)

Don't you think the salvors, apparently the best in the world have thought of these suggestions, e.g heating, or diluting the oil?

Everybody is so quick to criticize, give these guys a break, and commend them for what they are doing.

[johnMi 2]

Spare a thought for the captain, and the guy who made the mistake, whoever he was

These guys are not the heartless 'Pirates of the high seas' as they are made out to be.

I reckon by now, especially the guy who made the mistake wishes he could just curl up and die, he would be feeling so bad.

I would compare it to accidentally running over a child on the street, but worse, cos he knows that the reef did not jump out in front of him.

Before you say, 'well it serves him right', have you ever made a mistake that could have had dire consequences, but fate was on your side? I have, and therefore I have sympathy for the two charged.

Believe me, if they could change it, they would!

[too_tall 15]

I didn't criticize at all. I asked why it cant be done. In the situation, I hardly think that the salvors would really want to be spending time fielding questions as such, so I was asking to see if anyone else had the answer.

[wheels 543]

can they not thin the heavy fuel oil with some form of solvent?

Yes you could, but a couple of things to consider. Lets say they could get away with just 10% of a Solvent to thin it enough to make it flow. That means they have to find and pour in to the ship 170tonnes of Solvent. Then the next problem is that if they then do manage to get all 1700 tonne off and it is full of solvent, what do you do with it.

 

Everybody is so quick to criticize, give these guys a break,

But then we wouldn't have anything to discuss

Yes it is ruffly 6t/hr. Sorry, but if these guys are experts then why do they not know this and have planned for it. It's like they have been surprised the oil is so thick and won't pump. We are very fortunate the weather is stabilizing at the mo. This happening a month or two earlier and it would be a mess down there.

 

Spare a thought for the captain, and the guy who made the mistake, whoever he was

These guys are not the heartless 'Pirates of the high seas' as they are made out to be.

He may not be a heartless Pirate, but he is still in command of close on 50,000tonnes and 240m of ship. That's the responsibility that comes with the job. Those that drive a Truck are responsible for the Truck to be in legal servicible condition and that the load is secure and to drive it in a safe manner. Failure of any of the above can lead to prosection.

You may have been lucky once yourself, but if whatever it was did happen, then you could or would have been prosecuted under the law. The law is there for a reason. To ensure there are Policies and Operating procedures and to ensure people follow those policies and procedures. If the Captain did not follow the rules, then he is responsible. If he did not follow them due to Company policy, then that would or should come out in court and the court Verdict would afford Blame to whom ever it was due. But also the Captain should say, these are the laws of operating a Ship and I will not sail this Ship, till the companies policies comply with the Law.

[rigger 47]

But also the Captain should say, these are the laws of operating a Ship and I will not sail this Ship, till the companies policies comply with the Law.

 

And sadly that could be the last act of a career as he could get blacklisted - sadly in many countries money makes the rules and certain nationalities work under fear of being blacklisted if they 'upset' the company / agent and so on.

[wheels 543]

A picture of our local ARC Assitant Harbour Master in Tauranga.

[too_tall 15]

can they not thin the heavy fuel oil with some form of solvent?

Yes you could, but a couple of things to consider. Lets say they could get away with just 10% of a Solvent to thin it enough to make it flow. That means they have to find and pour in to the ship 170tonnes of Solvent. Then the next problem is that if they then do manage to get all 1700 tonne off and it is full of solvent, what do you do with it.

 

I had considered this. However, having the 1850 odd tonnes of fuel oil/solvent contained on shore, where time is available to deal with it in a satisfactory manner would surely be far preferred to having it liable to end up in the environment somewhere. I would imagine that the solvent may well be flammable, and in such an unrefined product, it may well not render it useless as fuel oil anyway. Dilution would assist the combustion of the product. Make MSC use it in their vessels...

 

Spare a thought for the captain, and the guy who made the mistake, whoever he was

These guys are not the heartless 'Pirates of the high seas' as they are made out to be.

He may not be a heartless Pirate, but he is still in command of close on 50,000tonnes and 240m of ship. That's the responsibility that comes with the job. Those that drive a Truck are responsible for the Truck to be in legal servicible condition and that the load is secure and to drive it in a safe manner. Failure of any of the above can lead to prosection.

You may have been lucky once yourself, but if whatever it was did happen, then you could or would have been prosecuted under the law. The law is there for a reason. To ensure there are Policies and Operating procedures and to ensure people follow those policies and procedures. If the Captain did not follow the rules, then he is responsible. If he did not follow them due to Company policy, then that would or should come out in court and the court Verdict would afford Blame to whom ever it was due. But also the Captain should say, these are the laws of operating a Ship and I will not sail this Ship, till the companies policies comply with the Law.

 

Its amusingly unbalanced the potential penalty of this - if, as a dairy farmer, I have an issue with my effluent system ( and quite a small one - spilling maybe 500L of untreated effluent - cowshit and water - into a waterway would suffice ) I can easily get a 6 figure fine. So can my staff members should it be their fault. Is that as damaging as 1700 tonnes of oil potentially being dumped in the sea just off the coast? Not to mention the containers. And the cost and stress of dealing with the grounded ship, which is going to become part of the reef on which its stuck no doubt. Or, if a truck driver is careless and causes a spill of a dangerous chemical or substance, they can face fines exponentially higher than the captain of the Rena. And face potential jail sentences.

[Guest]

wonder if it now being relatively stable weatherwise and knowing this isn't going to last has any one thought of perhaps using an electronic or even long bouyed rope attached to each of those precariously perched containers so that when they inevitably do fall off they can be located quickly, surely a relatively easyish to do thing from a helicopter winchline

[Guest]

wonder if it now being relatively stable weatherwise and knowing this isn't going to last has any one thought of perhaps using an electronic or even long bouyed rope attached to each of those precariously perched containers so that when they inevitably do fall off they can be located quickly, surely a relatively easyish to do thing from a helicopter winchline

Twas done 2 weeks ago. The ropes and buoys method.

[Guest]

wonder if it now being relatively stable weatherwise and knowing this isn't going to last has any one thought of perhaps using an electronic or even long bouyed rope attached to each of those precariously perched containers so that when they inevitably do fall off they can be located quickly, surely a relatively easyish to do thing from a helicopter winchline

Twas done 2 weeks ago. The ropes and buoys method.

 

excellent

[wheels 543]

Looks like some significant weather could be coming in late Tuesday evening and over Wednesday that could bring 3m swells. For some reason the news is reporting it could get to 5m, but I doubt that.