Megwyn 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I need some advice. Repeat Offender has furling screechers which once attached to the furler are pulled out along the prodder. Apparently when you attempt to furl or unfurl the sail, the furler itself spins on the 'pull out' line, thereby creating a bit of a mess. We are wanting to improve the furling system. Mr RO has tried a large clip around the prodder that is attached to the pull out line, but it gets stuck on the prodder and will not slide along. So what sort of system does every one else use to get the furler to the pointy end of the prodder that prevents line twisting? I thought maybe a lock and key system, where something on the furler locks into something on the prodder, but how to is my downfall. Thanks in advance M Link to post Share on other sites
unpc 5 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I have seen two systems. The simplest is simply attaching the furler to a line one end fixed at the end of the prod the other going into a rachet block and back to the cockpit to enable the tack line to be extended or shortened. I think you will find the methods shown on the Pro furl Nex site. Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 2:1 tackline with a bit of separation between the 2 points. you need to weld the clip so it can spin as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 A 2:1 Tackline with a non swivelling block is the simplest way to prevent it spinning. And when you go to furl or unfurl hold tension on Both ropes? Works on the big boats. Otherwise a Nappy type system like on Frantic Drift etc for the furler to clip onto and then slide out the prod using the tackline to slide it out. (Basically a slippery loop around the prod that the furler clips onto and is able to slide in and out and you clip the tackline on to pull it to the end. Otherwise you can go all out like the wolf and mount a traveller can on top of the prod? Then clip it to that and pull it out. But for what you are doing i cant see how a 2:1 tackline wouldnt do the job? Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Excuse me for my ignorance - but what is a 2:1 tackline? M Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 256 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 We use a 2:1 on the tack, like Boo Boo said we've got a bit of separation (70mm?) between the block attachment and where the tail of the sheet attaches. Non swivelling spinnaker clip thing so the base of the furler is held still. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 A 2:1 line is simply a line that is fixed at one end (say the end of the prod), runs back to a block on the bottom of the screecher furler and then back to the end of the prod. The 2:1 bit refers to the mechanical purchase generated by the use of a block. If it was a 1:1 line it would simply be a single line running from the end of the prod to the furler. A 2:1 purchase means that for say 10kg of pull on the free end of the line you are exterting 20kg of pull at the business end. Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 256 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Tackline is the bit of string that is tied to the bottom of the furler. Do you have that or are you fixed straight to the prod somehow? Damn, whipped by Grinna! Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 sorry I'll get back to work now Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The Wolf has a Traverller Track on Top of it And the Furler Drum is attached to the Car. this way it can never tangle as you describe. The Frantic Drift System is a Webbing Loop wrapped around the Prod that Slides out with the Tack, The Furler is attached to the webbing Loop. If you use a 2:1 system it needs to be tight and short when you furl to prevent twisting and also be aware the two other systems keep the furler attached to the Prod and don't allow the sail and furler to end up in the water. Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 256 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You might be able to see it in this photo? Tack line runs out along the prod, then up round a block to the furler & back down & attaches to the prod. If its not a 2:1, ie just a single line then the line just winds up & not the furler. Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, we have never tried it, and now Mr RO has messed with it I am unable to work out how it was before. I think it had a snap shackle at the end of the furler pull out line, which attached to the snap shackle on the furler. You then pulled this out, dangling over the drink, to the pointy end of the prodder, where it dangled about until you hoisted the sail, and then twisted while you were trying to unfurl the sail. I have tried using his pipe clip thingy with a shackle through it, attached to the pointy end of the prodder and through which runs the furler pull out line, (sorry LOL), which then goes through a pulley and back to the clutch. The knot at the end of the line looks like it will nestle nicely inside the shackle it runs through, thereby possible preventing line twist which causes the mess. But I don't know if this will work. Wondering, if I use a 2:1 system, how the hell do you attach the furler to it? I tried drawing it on a piece of paper, and could not see how I could do it without having to swing off the prodder. . . The Frantic Drift System is a Webbing Loop wrapped around the Prod that Slides out with the Tack, The Furler is attached to the webbing Loop. So if I put a webbing loop (there is a couple of those on the boat) around the prodder, and use that to hold the furler down onto the prodder so that it slides along out to the pulley - that should stop it? And sorry Bad Kitty - I just cannot see enough detail in that pic - but thanks M Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If you can rouse Repeat Offender from his fog of melancholy over the loss of his favourite toy he might be able to advise. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 My Furler has a short 'Leg' about 200ml on it underneath that has a line attached. That line then is connected back to the bow. This stops the drum from turning. I also have a 2:1 on the tack and find for furling, both tack and halyard need to be tight, (perferably furled downwind) Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 If you can rouse Repeat Offender from his fog of melancholy over the loss of his favourite toy he might be able to advise. I cannot help but think that if he had thought of a better system, he would have tried it? Mind you, I noted when I was searching for furler info to see if this question had already been asked, that someone mentioned that screechers make the bow dig in. I wonder how advisable it is to use one on the Offender, what with her reputation and all. . . Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Out of Fog, all I can see is sunshine and blue skys. No effing boat? RO has a two to one tack line and needs it to tension the system. the issue is the screachers try to untwist as the tack is hauled out, then the controll line wraps around the drum. This is a mk2 version of the original concept and probably needs some fine tuning. Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Depends whether the screecher goes to the end of the prod or part way out. On Redshift (Farrier 8.2) we clipped the screecher to a fitting about 2/3 along the prod (opposite the brace to the bow) before we left the dock. The spinnakers tack line goes to the end of the prod. This provides some separation between the furled screecher and the spinnaker but usually we dropped the furled screecher over the pulpit and along the trampoline beside the cabin. always ready to hoist but out of the way, no twisting attachments and so on. I might have a photo somewhere.... Timb Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Out of Fog, all I can see is sunshine and blue skys. No effing boat? RO has a two to one tack line and needs it to tension the system. the issue is the screachers try to untwist as the tack is hauled out, then the controll line wraps around the drum. This is a mk2 version of the original concept and probably needs some fine tuning. Thanks Offender for helping me clarify that - when I looked at it this morning he has moved the lines about and it is no longer tied to the bow. . . will have to ask him tonight to put it back the way it was, and work from there. TimB - I think the screecher goes to the end of the prodder (or near as to). Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Megwyn, not relevant for you perhaps, but it is a huge advantage in buoy racing to have the screecher separate from the spinnaker tack line, then you can scream in on a beam reach under screecher, round the buoy furling it and hoist an the spinnaker immediately, then lower the screecher at leisure while under spinnaker. No fumbling about changing tack line over. We also sometimes used the screecher up wind in very light stuff so same manoeuvore (sp??) at the top mark. Timb Link to post Share on other sites
Megwyn 2 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Excellent - thanks everybody - I have shown all your ideas and thoughts, and photos to Mr RO, and it all makes sense to him. Bad Kitty - he totally got the picture - thanks. So I guess we will be experimenting tomorrow - weather allowing. (Yeah - he is home so we can sail!). Thanks again - will let you know what we sus out. M Link to post Share on other sites
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