Guest Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ok. So I have owned my Contest 29 for ...oh.....about 5 minutes!!!.....and while I love it, I already have size envy. Just wondering what the 'crew' thinks about this one? Value for money? Any comments appreciated. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-m ... 009851.htm Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The big debate here will be crew.org members view of ferro yachts. Typically get a lot of yacht for the money, but there are downsides. Wheels has a ferro yacht so I'm sure he will chip in soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Here's a quick four-pager to keep you going in the meantime viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17681 It may not be mentioned in that thread but obtaining insurance is an aspect you would want to get comfort on (it seems to be getting harder for a lot of boats so not unique to ferro but perhaps tougher). Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Personally, i wouldnt touch a ferro boat. Slow, heavy and with buggar all resale value. If your looking for reasonably priced 40fters, take a look across the ditch in Aus Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 CHeers Murky, Just read the thread. You're quite right, insurance is probably the only significant consideration. Other than that I'm comfortable with FC construction. I'm probably more interested in other considerations...... I guess my question would be "assuming you were happy with Ferro Cement construction, what do you think of the boat in terms of setup, value for money, condition. ie. If you had 60k to buy a boat.....would this one be on your short list?" Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Depends what you're looking for and why you want the bigger boat. Pictures indicate it looks like a good boat and you're getting a lot of boat for $60k. However one thing I noticed was the galvanised rigging. If they have cut costs here what else has been done? The cost to maintain a 41ft boat are (or atleast should be) the same whether it is wood, glass, steel or timber. However the % cost of maintenance is much higher here. What do I mean - well the cost to refurb the motor would be similar. However the owner of a $200k glass boat, while annoyed, is probably less concerned spending $20k or 10% of the boats value on doing the refurb. The owner of the $60k ferro boat is now spending 33% of the cost of his boat on a refurb. Will he spend the money or look for a cheaper option? And that is one of the problems with Ferro boats - cheap to buy but difficult to justify the expense of keeping in top nick due to resale value issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 What do I mean - well the cost to refurb the motor would be similar. However the owner of a $200k glass boat, while annoyed, is probably less concerned spending $20k or 10% of the boats value on doing the refurb. The owner of the $60k ferro boat is now spending 33% of the cost of his boat on a refurb. Will he spend the money or look for a cheaper option? And that is one of the problems with Ferro boats - cheap to buy but difficult to justify the expense of keeping in top nick due to resale value issues. Yeah, that's a damn good point. Cheers AB But lets assume you sell a boat for what you paid for it....whether its 200k or 60k. Wouldn't it be fair to say that you are never going to recover anything spent on maintenance....even if it was a 20k engine? So you'd lose the same money either way.....albeit a bigger percentage of the purchase value (like you said). Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 True, you're probably going to lose the $20k either way, but the % makes it easier to 'justify'. When you ask the guys on this forum how much to allow for annual maintenance, many will respond with a % of purchase price - ie allow say 10% for cruising (more for racing). Now my boat is 26' and worth around the same price as this boat (in my mind anyway) - so $6k in maintenance per year will keep her in top nick. Gear is cheaper (loads are smaller) and there is less stuff to maintain. The guy with the $200k boat might allow $20-$40k for cruising or racing. Point is the guy that buys the $60k 41' yacht quite often can come up with the $60k to buy it but does he have enough to pay the same $20k+ in maintenance that is needed to maintain a 40' boat irrespective of what it is made from. For Ferro boats (i) quite often that maintenace cost looks too high and (ii) can he justify putting $20k into a $60k boat every year - possibly not. Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 252 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I guess question is do you "need" a bigger boat or is it just size envy as you say? If you need more room for family, kids and their friends then ok, or if your 29' is holding you back from longer trips, average weather forecasts or something then that needs addressing, but if your boat is doing everything you need, and you want something flasher and bigger for the hell of it maybe it's worth thinking about for a while. Bigger boat = bigger marina, bigger insurance bill, more maintenance costs, more broken stuff. Sometimes the difference in costs means less sailing & more work to pay for the sailing, which suddenly you aren't doing as much of because of the work...............(cue downwards spiral) Also anchoring further out in the bay, harder to sail single handed or short handed. And it doesn't matter how big or flash you go, there's always a bigger boat sailing into a bay somewhere. But I know how you feel, when we're sailing down the coast at 15 knots slurping down a banana daiquiri and Isis cruises past at 25 knots it really hurts! Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I guess question is do you "need" a bigger boat or is it just size envy as you say?If you need more room for family, kids and their friends then ok, or if your 29' is holding you back from longer trips, average weather forecasts or something then that needs addressing, but if your boat is doing everything you need, and you want something flasher and bigger for the hell of it maybe it's worth thinking about for a while. Bigger boat = bigger marina, bigger insurance bill, more maintenance costs, more broken stuff. Sometimes the difference in costs means less sailing & more work to pay for the sailing, which suddenly you aren't doing as much of because of the work...............(cue downwards spiral) Also anchoring further out in the bay, harder to sail single handed or short handed. And it doesn't matter how big or flash you go, there's always a bigger boat sailing into a bay somewhere. But I know how you feel, when we're sailing down the coast at 15 knots slurping down a banana daiquiri and Isis cruises past at 25 knots it really hurts! +1 I get boat-envy on a regular basis - as does just about every boat owner I'm sure. My 30 footer is designed for stability - it's narrow, deep-keeled, high freeboard, narrow transom, etc, etc. I was on a Lotus 9 the other day and could not believe I was on a boat of the same length. It must have at least treble the amount of storage and living space that I do, and I seriously started to wonder what the hell I'd done with my money. But then I went back to my books and read a bit about GZ curves and such like, and reassured myself that I'd done the right thing. Just be careful about going up in size - consider it carefully, the -ve as well as the +ve, because there are many! Don't end up like so many people I see - with a boat they can't handle themselves, stuck in port looking for crew when the small boat owners can all get out on the water single-handed or two up. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Just the increase in cost of deckgear for a larger boat can be an eye opener. Blocks for larger boats need to handle larger loads and the costs increase exponentially when the gear gets bigger. Just something to think about. Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Just the increase in cost of deckgear for a larger boat can be an eye opener. Blocks for larger boats need to handle larger loads and the costs increase exponentially when the gear gets bigger. Just something to think about. Yup. Everything costs the price of a small secondhand car, several boat bucks. Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Been on this boat. It appears on first inspection to be a good boat. Motor is a good 'un from a trained ear, starts very well and runs very quietly. Boat is in good order overall, but the decks have been hand painted, and poorly. Hand painting on ferro decks is not a problem. Poor painting is. A lowish cost, but time consuming job to get it right. The boats largest problem is that of comfort - the saloon seating is bolt upright and just plain uncomfortable. This is a bit of a problem on a cruiser!. Other than those couple of points, one small, one not so small for a cruiser, its a good boat and probably one of the tidier ferros on TM at the moment. Owner is Irish and does not know much about sailing.... Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 All I'd say about this boat is watch the hull very closely. It has history is all I'll say. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Sayers made a very good Hull. There should be no problems there. If there had ever been any damage in the past, then it should have been repaired OK, because it is so easy, it is pretty hard to get it wrong. Personally, i wouldnt touch a ferro boat. Slow, heavy and with buggar all resale value. Tuffyluffy, ask Shanson how slow a "big heavey Ferro boat" is. You really need to get on one or two of them before making these comments. They are just plain wrong. However one thing I noticed was the galvanised rigging. If they have cut costs here what else has been done? ab1974, here's a question for you. Why do we all use SST rigging???? Because it's shiney. That's all. No other reason. Apart from the looks, Galv is actually a far far supperior material and will infact last the lifetime of the boat if it is looked after. Galv was commonly used on Ferro and many older boats due more to the age of when they tended to be biult, rather than because it was a cost saving. So what are the negatives?? well the only one's I come across is firstly, insurance. Darn near impossible to Insure. Anyone heard of an FC boat sinking in any recent years??? It's a stupid situation. The other problem is that there are few people around that know anything about them now. Although at least there is the FC owners association in Auckland. But the big issue is those that don't actually know anything about them, then throwing in thier 2 cents and making comments about how they know of some guy that has a mate that was related to a Cousin of anothers mate that had his boat turn into a huge pile of rust and crumble away into dust. Which actually was really fortunate for the owner because the thing was as heavey as an Iron Ore Bulk Carrier and was so slow you had to measure his speed by carbon dating. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'd have to agree, footpaths can be deceiving. I was seriously No on them until I was lent one for 2 weeks and my views changed a lot. I very much doubt I'd buy one but I sure don't pooh pooh them like I did. Value for money they are damn hard to beat. Galv wire is cheaper, lighter and stronger than SS wire. Leave the SS bling factor out and galv is the superior choice. Link to post Share on other sites
ab1974 1 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You're right Wheels nothing wrong with the Galv wire - just an observation about cost savings measures and whether this indicates more serious cost saving issues on maintenance. Was trying to support my theory that the reason many larger cheaper boats go to the dogs is that people can afford the purchase price and most items tick the 'needs / wants' box. However bigger boats are more expensive to maintain than smaller boats on a like for like basis. My theory is that means maintenance short cuts are often taken as people can't afford proper upkeep. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You are in many ways quite correct ab. But I have found there are two or maybe three very telling signs of corners cut in FC biulding and should be taken as alarm bells. First one is the timber used inside. The worst I have ever seen was packing and pallets from the wharehouse and I knew it was from there, because it had their name printed on still. Although i have to say, it was a Steel Boat. But you do come across it in FC boats. If the biulder started off to biuld a cheap boat, you can be assured the inside will be cheap. Another area is the mast. Not the rigging, but he mast. Often either timber or a steel Well pipe. Although once again, I have seen the same on a Steel boat or two. And the third one, is the Engine and stearing. Come across some obscure Truck or Bus engine with Heath Robinson marinization and the same Truck or Buses Stearing box mounted to the Rudder, then you can usually expect it was biult cheap. Now that is not to say any of those is bad, as I have also seen some...err...steel boats with similar setups and they can be great setups. I have also seen some poor set ups that have rung alarm bells. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It looks well maintained from the photos. Hull looks excellent. Built by Sayers as is mine and I can vouch for the quality of the Joinery and the ferro work on mine. Ferro is an excellent material for a cruising yacht, quiet below and they are easily and cheaply repaired. I prefer ferro to timber and glass. They are also shaped to the designers best intentions rather than the limits of the material as in steel. Ask the owner where he is insured and you should be able to continue with that. Sure they are cheaper to sell but also to buy and the later is what makes them more often cruised seriously than any other or so I've read. If I didn't already have one I'd be on my bike now...... Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I saw this baby out of the water and all i'd say is it's been on and off the market now for years for some very good reasons. Watch for chicken wire through the hull in places and quite a bit of hidden rust in the hull. The design itself is great. I like a well built ferro, my old man had one and it was a great old girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.