Norwegian Blue 10 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The false economy bit was "if they can get one for 50k euro overseas could we expect to get one for here for $77k" or is it suddenly going to be $130k which would be an instant turn-off. The 50k euro was all sails and trailer and bits and bobs. It is ORC Cat 4 and if you can get a Reactor to Cat 1 (with much pain I am sure) I don't see why it would be too hard or expensive to get a modern small boat to Cat 3. I am happy at this stage of my life with no compromise. I would love to go cruising, I just don't have the time. If I were to persuade the family to go cruising, they would want a floating motor-home. I could follow Toles and upgrade to a R930, but I am happy with a boat in the 26' range. I could get an SR, and there is nothing wrong with owning a 20 - 30 yr boat, but there are constant maintenance gotchas (as Infiltrator keeps reminding me). I am often gob-smacked by how much the newer 26 footers smack the old 1/4 tonners and I guess the same will happen with a 2012 designed hull/rig combo to the 15 - 20 year old boats. The art is constantly evolving. However, I am aware that it's no fun really to have a new fast boat and not be able to reasonably race against another similar. So, the cycle continues and the old boats evolve (as much as they can). Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I reckon they are cool boats, and often looked at them thinking if there were a fleet of them i would do one. (And thats coming from an SR26 Owner) They are along the same theory of why the SR was done. 26 Foot is a cheap size to race. Sails are respectably priced If you make the step to 30 foot they get considerably more expensive. As does the gear etc. I reckon that size is a good size of one design yachting. And if you want to cruise then buy a launch Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wash your mouth out with soap. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So a GP26 at around 80k? or a Platu ? Or a SR at 25-35k fully tricked out and the ability to utilise one of the best cruising grounds in the world..... We have such good cruising I think that's why we want the compromise - most of the rest of the world you go out, you come back so day boats make sense. EE Link to post Share on other sites
smitty 4 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think EE hit the nail on the head there, with great cruising areas around us you tend to want to a bit more from your boat than just racing. I lived in the UK for many years and raced a sportsboat out of the Hamble. No where to go cruising from there within easy reach, certainly not for a small boat so a sports boat was the sensible choice. I thought I'd get a sports boat back in NZ, but an SR turned out to be the better option for me. Good fleet of similar speed boats for fun racing, can do coastal races & a bit of cruising. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 EUR 50k, with sails and a trailer is a very good deal. Add duty and shipping and there is a bit more, expense to be taken into account. But even so. Proof of how good the deal really is will be when someone with an SR and a spare $50k decides it's worth the cost to upgrade. Who's first? Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This would smack an SR bigtime. The reason we are still sailing around in 20 year old boats here is because people think exactly what you have posted. That is just a false economy. This is a brand new race boat, higher tech construction, carbon rig etc etc. An SR is old, low tech and and wouldn't even be comparable to a GP26. Not everyone wants a double bed or to take it cruising. Personally I think these would make a great fleet down here and are within reach of a lot of people. We just need to move on from wanting something that does everything for nothing. The rest of the world has. You'd hope it would smoke an SR, it's 3 times the price! But to smoke an 'old' NZ boat of equal value it would need to be able to mix it with the likes of Positive Touch or Tongue Twister or Black Out and be leaving boats like Demonstrator, Wild Thing, or SMAK for dead. Maybe the 26 could, I don't know. But having it sitting next to something like Black Out, both wearing the same price tag, you'd need a good salesman. Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Blue 10 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Well as I have found out buying a 30 year old boat, the purchase price is about 1/4 of what I have invested and I haven't done anything other than maintenance and repairs and new sails. So while you may get an SR for $20K - $30K I'm guessing that there is probably a significant amount to be spent to remain competitive? The GP 26s being built in Turkey you get this for EUR 40k: Hull, deck, bulkheads and internal structures. Carbon Mast, Boom, Rudder, Tiller and Bowsprit Non slip deck, Choice of color for deck and hull Antal, running rigging, Manual bilge pump, windex, navigation lights, 12 v control panel So could someone local do a similar thing for $60k? Importing one would push the price up too much. The Aussies are building one priced from $88k but that suddenly pushes into silly money (i.e. may as well go back to an SR or R930). So why not a Platu or other one design? A GP 26 competing in the 2011 Hamilton Island race week clocked 24knots and I like the way it has been expressed by one of the designers.... Designer's Comments When I first approached the GP 26 class rules several years ago, my initial impression was, “Why would anyone want to build a boat so closely resembling a Melges 24? The strength of the Melges 24 class will surely limit the growth of GP 26 fleets”. Since this first impression I have spent some more years sailing aboard a Melges 24 at home in Hawaii, generally in high winds. Much of this time I have thought how nice it would be to have a boat that can handle the breeze better, with a deeper keel fin, bigger rudder with more feel, rig further back in the boat to keep the bow from driving under the waves, and a couple winches to make it less painful to trim the jib and spinnaker. With my new GP 26 design I now have the platform for all of these improvements. Closer examination of the GP 26 Class dimensions reveals a yacht with excellent potential. Although the GP 26 is approx 200 kg heavier than a Melges 24, all of this weight is carried in a deeper keel. The GP 26 has a similar displ/length ratio as the Melges 24, and the GP 26 rig is nearly 1.4 m (4.5 ft) taller than the Melges 24. Added to the package is a masthead Code Zero to boost the reaching and light air performance further. You can easily derive that a GP 26 has plenty of power and will deliver very high performance. I am really quite excited to get this boat out on the water and let it loose. I think these small box rule yachts appeal to “individuals”; that is to say people who want to own a yacht that reflects more of what they want in hull form, rig and deck layout. The GP 26 class reminds me of the IOR ¼ ton fleet that had many owner-built or owner-finished yachts. At the major regattas you would see quite a diversity of designs, and it was always interesting to examine the various designs and then line-up against them on the race course to see what happened. Showing up with a fast design was a major facet of the regatta that you just don’t get in a one-design fleet. Thankfully the GP 26 bears little resemblance to an IOR yacht, and the box allows designers to explore a variety of hull forms within simple length, beam and displacement limits. Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Think eur$50 converted to NZD, GST duty and freight is probably going to be the wrong side of that $130 isn't it? There's a GP26 in Aus, best as I can tell it's not as quick as the FT10 so I'm not sure it'd get close to Blackout or Demo. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Not sure why we are suddenly comparing a new 26 footer to a new 30footer either tho? Pretty sure it cost more than 130k to build Demonstrator? and more to build Blackout... Yes bang for buck it wont compare when the others are second hand. But its a new boat... Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think it will be a challenge to make the concept fly in NZ. Some very good sailors with a vested interest in making the class work need to bring one here and compete. And hope like hell it's faster than the Ft10. But NZ is a pretty strange and different market to europe. Young people like fast boats, but don't have any money. 40 year olds who can afford to drop 100k on a boat usually have to tick more than just the sport boat box. You have to deal in real time. Of course the likes of BO and Dem cost more than $100k to build. But now they are worth about that, so dollar for dollar they are competition for the 26. The 8.5 cat concept hit the nail on the head cause the existing fleet of heavily modified GBE's could just about keep up with the new perpose built 8.5 boats. GBE's were cheap enough for young guys in the marine industry to buy and wick it up a bit. I know, cause I got on the band wagon and did exactly that with my old GBE and got myself an 8.5. But the GP is going to be sailing around on it's own for a while. Like you say, it will be all over the SR's. So it will jump up a division and competing against quick 'older' 30+ footers costing about the same amount except with toilets, bunks galley's, interiors and headroom. Bags a spot on the crew when someone fronts up with the cash to kick a fleet off though! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 26 Foot is a cheap size to race. Sails are respectably priced If you make the step to 30 foot they get considerably more expensive. As does the gear etc.WTF are you smoking? Your little 26fters carry bigger sails than my 30fter so that theory of yours seems grown out of a empty rum bottle :) Yes listen to MarkM, the 50K Euro boat would be more 120K NZ by the time it hit the water here. I reckon Class 950's would take off faster. 50K more but a hell of a lot more boat with a hell of a lot more capabilities inc Xmas cruz with mum and the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Blue 10 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I don't want to, nor should I need to import one. Is it purely a volume thing that means you can get everything bar the sails for $60k (EUR 40k) from Turkey? As has been debated in other threads, it is worth importing some yachting stuff (I know I have) but most of my recent purchases have been local because the difference has become quite small. So am I dreaming or could I find a local designer and builder produce me a completed hull/deck, rudder, keel etc. for around $50k and let me buy the rest of the rigging and finish it off? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Knot dreaming but I'd say you are pushing some limits pretty hard. I've done the costing on a 950 to build here or import. Boat building is a volume game and the EU has it all over us in that regard. The import was seriously less bucks, around 100K less. Mind you that is with the currently high NZ$, having the boat pro-built here and would involve a little screwing of low on work semi-desperate EU builders. I do believe a NZ built one would be a better boat though. The biggest problem you'd face doing them in NZ is everyone would want to change theirs. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I don't want to, nor should I need to import one. Is it purely a volume thing that means you can get everything bar the sails for $60k (EUR 40k) from Turkey? As has been debated in other threads, it is worth importing some yachting stuff (I know I have) but most of my recent purchases have been local because the difference has become quite small. So am I dreaming or could I find a local designer and builder produce me a completed hull/deck, rudder, keel etc. for around $50k and let me buy the rest of the rigging and finish it off? The best bet has to be unitec for cheap hull and decks. They've got a in house designer also! Other than that, composite boat builders are a bit thin on the ground these days Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The best bet has to be unitec for cheap hull and decks. They've got a in house designer also! Other than that, composite boat builders are a bit thin on the ground these days second that.. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Not sure why we are suddenly comparing a new 26 footer to a new 30footer either tho? Nor me, an NZ built trail-able Dixon 8m is around $130k on a trailer.... Not that I would buy one...ever, but comparable size new NZ built boat. Makes the SR look pretty good. Whats a Shaw 650 - around 50k? so scaled up to 26foot/8m around 70k? Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Quite correct M-M that we shouldn't compare a 26 with a newer 30, different beasts and the build price is definitely a different beast. I would have thought though the niche a GP26 would fill overlaps the sports boats too much for it to ever gain traction here. Anyone looking at one would also have to be looking at sports boats. Accepted you'd have to compromise on what racing you could do a little, but established sports boat racing versus modern high performance small keelboat which is close to unique, you'd have to think most buyers would opt for the sports boats. Would be good to see it happen, not against it, just can't see it happening. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Here is a friend of mine building an IRC GP26 on the cheap. We did a rig for her at the same time we did WT's new rig. Will be interesting to see how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Blue 10 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Hey W.T where is she being built and what design was used? I would be quite keen to do something similar Link to post Share on other sites
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