SMU's Crew 4 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Very sad. Was interested listening to Martin Tasker on TV1 news say that apparently all the TNZ crew carry a canister of air with them in case of getting trapped under the tramp. Just goes to show what an extreme sport the AC has become. Its all very well to carry air but what happens if you're injured and unable to access it.. Yep, that's the thing I worry about most on a boat - getting knocked unconcious and overboard. Or to be more accurate, it's the thing I worry most about my husband doing while solo sailing. He's knocked himself out a few times doing various things! Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 that beam's being blamed Preliminary reports indicate Artemis’s boat didn’t capsize because the sailors were pushing too hard or made a mistake, as was the case with Team Oracle. The problem was with the boat itself, either faulty engineering or faulty construction. The boat simply broke apart under sail, folded, then flipped. The Artemis boat has had a history of cracking and problems with the carbon fiber used in the twin “beams” — the two girders that lash the two narrow hulls together. The boat had been in and out of the shed numerous times in an attempt to correct those problems. Today, however, the forward beam — the girder in front of the sail — gave way during a practice run. The two hulls, no longer connected, began sailing in slightly different directions. This caused one hull to snap just forward of the aft beam, and the mast, held up by high-tension rigging connected to the front of the hulls, simply fell over. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/am ... cup-crash/ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Very, very sad for all concened. Especially for his wife and children.....and I wouldn't imagine the guys involved in the design/build of that front spar will be feeling too flash either. I hope someone is passing on the condolences from crew.org squid? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Yes. Smithy - I also think he won't rush into something silly, as yo usay - he's not that crass. but the fact is he's been calling these boats silly and dangerous for at least 12 months now. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Silly, dangerous and far too expensive. Hard to say that he's entirely wrong at this point. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 On March 3, on this forum, I wrote:- The fact is they've fucked it in terms of yacht racing. It used to be a competition where extremely wealthy yachtsmen (that is, not yachtsmen at all, but owners of yachts with a passion for sailing) would vie for supremacy in a series of races, sailed by extremely clever sailors.. In Corinthian terms, it probably reached it's highest moments during the pre-war challenges of Endeavour, Endeavour II, and then the post war period 1960s until the win by Australia II. Thence foreward it has seen a steady decline - in terms of quality of sportsmanship and purpose. The current competition is a scarcely disguised copy of formula 1 car racing where the punters (few of whom have any idea what's going on) are, instead, waiting for the next major crash. Well, we've had a couple of major crashes, this latest one fatal, and (sad as this incident may be) the organisers can now look forward to a much increased macabre public following of the America's Cup competition. They have, albeit inadvertantly, achieved what they set out to achieve - a dangerous extreme sailing spectacle, along the lines of Formula ! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 It has been confirmed that it was a structural failure that caused the capsize This boat had issues from day one with that front beam and today it completely gave way The poor guy was trapped under the boat for 10 minutes Not sure why it took so long to recover him. I guess we will learn more in the next few days ETNZ have 2 divers on chase 1 that follow our AC72 Not sure if AR will continue after this tragedy... Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I imagine AR's decision to continue or not will depend on: 1. Technical decision: Can they put forward a viable boat after this? 2. Moral decision: Once the initial raw shock eases, if family and friends of Simpson say "Carry on, it's what he would have wanted..." then they might... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 AC I think the issues are much wider than that, Artemis have a new boat, yesterday was to be the last sail for Big Red and their new boat is ready to be launched, not sure about their wing programme but presumably they are also able to deliver a new wing as part of their programme to develop a foiling option. As to the usual things that are trotted out at these times that Andrew would have wanted the team or the event to continue, nobody knows that, and if the question was, would he want the event to continue if this tragedy were to be repeated? then maybe the answer would be different. One of the core values of our sport has to be a zero tolerance to the possibility of the loss of a life, from the individual responsibility, to fellow crew members, to skippers, to team bosses, to event organisers and the adage that these risks come with the territory is simply not acceptable ( I am not suggesting that this is the case here or that anyone is going down that pathway at the moment) and cannot be allowed to filter into this tragedy. Under each and every view this is an utter tragedy and if the circumstance can not be remedied then the event should not continue (IMHO). If you saw the Iain Murray interview this morning we are lucky that our sport is in the hands of guys like him (the appointment of him to oversee the event was a typical Coutts master stroke), when asked about the various likely outcomes of the investigation he advised that there was nothing off the table in terms of possible outcomes and when pressed further he confirmed that the cancellation of the event was not off the table and that any decisions would only be made after a full investigation had been completed. Iain Murray clearly understands the value system and culture that underpins our sport, we are in good hands. RIP Andrew 'Bart' Simpson Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Wasn't a Spanish crewmember killed on one of the "old" AC boats? Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Wasn't a Spanish crewmember killed on one of the "old" AC boats? 1999. Killed when a piece of equipment fell on his head. Completely unconscionable that pieces of equipment were allowed to continue being used in the AC. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Whitbread got a few, Volvo, Mini-transat, Vendee Globe, Waitamata harbour, Lake Taupo, the Tassie has got a lot also ..... the list is long and won't stop growing whether the AC happens or knot. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Nothing is more interesting nor a important as death. It makes us live. Just wish we new what date and time so we can adjust a few plans. for Andrew Simpson. What a way to go. Sailing a speed machine in the AC. The stuff dreams are made of. RIP. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Yep I get that others have died on boats at sea, I have been to the funerals. And it too early to offer any speculation here from the safety of the couch and with no knowledge whatsoever of the systems and processes involved. But these boats are different and are a giant quantum forward of anything we have seen before and I am simply questioning whether the safety systems and processes are as advanced as these boats are and that these boats are sailed within an acceptable range? To have a guy trapped underwater for 10 minutes before assistance is available (if indeed that was the case) is an incredibly long time given the technologies and professional assistance that is available and if that scenario is a likely outcome when one of these boats has a catastrophic failure then something needs to be done to change any future outcomes F1 powerboats would not be racing if that was an acceptable part of their risk profile. When Ayrton Senna was killed,FI did not say oh well it was an act of god, racing car drivers have died before so keep calm and carry on. Fi made changes and found solutions and parameters (mostly from the drivers)that made their sport greatly safer. This was not some random event, or a beam falling out of the sky, so far we have had two of these boats, 50% of the fleet fail on the water and if you heard Murray Jones talk to PJ after their little swim they were very lucky that nobody was seriously hurt or killed that day. When we are at the stage that is acceptable or necessary for team chase boats to carry body bags then we all have a right to question the safety plan and management of these machines. Link to post Share on other sites
Chewing Gum 17 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Do they wear inflatable jackets ? Could be the lifejacket trapped him I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 This from an account in the Newcastle Herald...very hard to read... "A quick head count revealed one member of the crew was missing – Andrew Simpson – triggering a desperate search. The British two-time Olympic gold medallist was trapped underwater, wedged underneath ‘‘a few tonnes’’ of carbon fibre, frantically trying to free himself. His crew members could see him, fighting for his life and dived beneath the water to try to set him free. They handed the man they called ‘‘Bart’’ emergency oxygen bottles – which hold about 10 breaths each – in a bid to keep him alive in the hope rescue crews would arrive in time. They didn’t. The 36-year-old Briton, who was a strategist for Artemis Racing, was pronounced dead at the Saint Francis Yacht Club, after spending between 10 and 15 minutes underwater. Less than a year ago, Outteridge and Jensen were celebrating Olympic glory" Probably the saddest thing I have ever read in a newspaper. I not going to speculate on anything and this is just a direct cut and paste form a newspaper so I don't know about the accuracy. Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 120 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Probably the saddest thing I have ever read in a newspaper. . Ditto Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Here's the link to the full report, most of the information is being attributed to Nathan's Dad http://www.theherald.com.au/story/14924 ... ze/?cs=305 Link to post Share on other sites
otto 31 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 And more info here from Scuttlebutt http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/content.php?3496-Artemis-Rises Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Some of these guys may be having some internal re thinks / self analysis... http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/team#design One in particular has done this before. http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/team#design Check out the wing build team numbers. The wing was OK but the hulls? Link to post Share on other sites
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