BNG 49 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The berth holders are effectively getting rent free use of public space, a bit like having a reserved carpark at the local park just for you). There is no payment from the marina berth holders or company to compensate the public for the use of public land. There used to be a seabed licence fee which was exactly this charge, but that is no longer payable. I'm pretty sure we pay rates for the seabed area we occupy which is included in the fees we pay. This was included around the same time as GST went from 12.5% to 15%. I remember it well as they included the addition of rates and the GST increase on top into the first invoiceable period under 15% GST and the increase from both was quite pronounced. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 A good example of a marina that works well with the public is Bayswater. The fuel dock (funded by the marina for marina users) is used by all the dinghy/yacht owners wishing to access moorings off of the marina, or launch at the marina funded boat ramp. There appears no issues with access, and the pontoon is often used by those moored yachts to stock up/load/take on water. Those mooring owners don't pay but are entitled to use that facility as described above.Yes but that is because we on the Nth Shore aren't money grabbing elitists like many south of the bridge including many Westhaven berth holders. The dock at Bayswater, which if you don't know is a LOT smaller than Westhavens X pier, clearly shows there is zero conflict between berth holders and visiting public boats should you knot be anal SOB's. That berth is often a lot busier tha X as it is used by the berth holders for fuelling, visitors from fuelling and pick up's/drop offs and the users of the large and busy launching ramp next to it. You just never see dramas, screaming, hair pulling or eye gouging. So you sth Akl tossers get your mind out of your deluded wallets and stop being anal wankers. If that truth annoys you greatly then Yes bring on a civil war if you think you're up to it. Just be aware we have a Navy and you don't .. Na na nana Great post Elenya. Good to hear from someone who knows...... or should do Link to post Share on other sites
possum 0 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 How does the word public get into the discussion. Surely Westhaven is as much a public facility as POAL. Link to post Share on other sites
Elenya 33 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 [quote="BNG I'm pretty sure we pay rates for the seabed area we occupy which is included in the fees we pay. This was included around the same time as GST went from 12.5% to 15%. I remember it well as they included the addition of rates and the GST increase on top into the first invoiceable period under 15% GST and the increase from both was quite pronounced. I am aware of the increase in the area of the ex Auckland City Council to cover the Wethaven area. The rates are for the land area (I am prepared to be corrected by someone familiar with that piece of legislation) I believe the extension of the rateable area was to cover the existing reclaimed land and breakwater. Rates do not provide redress for the use of land or sea bed, they are payable to fund a council service for the area in which they lie. If for example I rent out a bit of my land I will recieve rent from the tennant, and I will pay rates. In the case of the seabed there is no rent so nothing goes to the public purse. I am a boaty and I moor my boat in a marina or use a mooring. I accept that I am priveleged to be able to use publicly owned space for free. With my marina berth I pay for the provision of facilities for all of the public to use (The chap anchoring at westhaven is an example of someone using such facilities as a non berth holder). This is fair and I would not wish to see it changed. I'm not paying rent to the public so why shouldn't they be allowed to use the facilities that I have built for me to use. I suppose my overall point is that 'people" believe that because they pay for a marina or mooring that they are paying to be there, your not. Your paying for your own facility. If an occupational user charge (ground rent) came into being there would be a reasonable amount of money to provide better boating facilities for every user of the sea. This would mean every person with a jetty at Kawau would be paying rent for having it there, that money would then go to providing better facilities for all. In this respect good on Mike Lee for actually doing something. I can also see the point that there are some interesting people out on the sea and boats do suffer thefts but do we realy want a society that judges people before they have even done anything other than be in a certain location lawfully? If we are going to judge people on the people type, looks, dress acode etc then I'm done for. Cheers Knot Me Do you ship chain/have arrangements with suppliers down here? need some new anchor chain from a good and reputable supplier (so not you obviously)! Managed to wear the old stuff out anchored of places for free for long periods of time whilst using the facilities. Link to post Share on other sites
Elenya 33 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 How does the word public get into the discussion. Surely Westhaven is as much a public facility as POAL. Differnt use of the word 'Public'. Yes Westhaven is public, as in owned by the public (like POAL) however is it 'public' in the manner in which people may use a public park (ie accessible)? The whole purpose of the thread is discussing that point. Why cant the public (all of us) access a marine area just beacuse someone else has built a facility for their own purposes. POAL is publicly owned but the port is not a public place as there are exclusion areas under the customs and port security act. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Too right KM put the boot into the Westhaven, we all know Bayswater serves the impoverished wards of Takapuna and Devonport, which are the last socialist bastions on the shore.As usual you are dead spot on. If it wasn't for us benevolent Nth Shore Socialists Akl Shitty would be a shadow of what it is today due to us forking out to pay for their facilities and this mythical train set we hear about but never see nor get to use. I am told it's real by the forecourt dude with the great voice at the Avondale BP. I'm told he's called Elvis something or other or so the other dude, Osama, reckons. Do you ship chain/have arrangements with suppliers down here? need some new anchor chain from a good and reputable supplier (so not you obviously)! Managed to wear the old stuff out anchored of places for free for long periods of time whilst using the facilities. There are no reputable suppliers in the game even if there is some reputable product. Most sell shite and market it as the latest, greatest and how good it will be for you, all the while knowing it'll turn to crap as soon as someone takes a hard look at it. It's call 'Doing a Lenny' And good on you for taking advantage of public assets. Many here don't think that's OK for kiwis to do but have no issue when foreigners do so if anyone askes what you are doing just say something like 'I'm a gay Nigerian researching the farting habits of Sperm Whales in a Nuclear Free environment for the UN panel for the betterment of Feminists'. You'll be untouchable Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 On the sea bed fee - there were 3 marinas in Akl that did pay a sea bed fee to the council. http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/arc-wind ... es/5/16042 FWIIW - Since 2009/2010 year the OPEX fees at Westpark have increased by about 6%. So a tad over 2% per year. Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Really??? And who paid for that lovely Northern Busway? Cant Remember but i think it was the Rate Payers? Cant see how that benefits me out East either to be honest. But its all part of the Super Sh1tty.... Link to post Share on other sites
Vorpal Blade 89 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 "Really??? And who paid for that lovely Northern Busway? Cant Remember but i think it was the Rate Payers? Cant see how that benefits me out East either to be honest. But its all part of the Super Sh1tty...." I may be wrong here Marshy (as I may have been wrong once before - well, they said I was but I doubted them), but I the busway was done way before Liveable Len's Super City was forced upon us, and I think a fair chunk of it was paid for by North Shore Council rate payers. Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 438 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Good original post Elenya - reflects my understanding of the situation, (have anchored in westhaven temporarily and not been bothered) And to return to the original postings visited a regular from here on her new boat today on X only to see the nice marina people coming past and waving from their fizzy, so I guess it depends on the one you run into, and how you look maybe??? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Bring back Mo I say Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I may be wrong here Marshy (as I may have been wrong once before - well, they said I was but I doubted them), but I the busway was done way before Liveable Len's Super City was forced upon us, and I think a fair chunk of it was paid for by North Shore Council rate payers. As Marshy is sort of OK, for a Westie it's only fair to add Akl ratepayers did chuck a few bucks in also. Most was paid for by Nth Shore rate payers and NZ's taxpayers though as TransitNZ chucked in a big wad. Akl Transport also put some in, they are (were) Akl regional. It was finished before it was stolen by those dodgy Sth/inner Aucklanders headed by that Lenny dude. Interesting factoid. The 6500mts busway, inc all the stations, bridges, park n rides and etc, cost the same amount as Lenny will get 400mts of train set for (probably only 100mts by the time it's finished). After 10 years of operation his train set is projected to carry less passengers than the Busway carried today. Can I say that out loud or will it make them Sth/inner Aucklanders feel horribly inefficient?? Now can we have the use of even one berth for occasional use?? Answer wisely as if you piss us off we have the Navy and Marshy has a air force. All you Sth/inner Aucklanders have is.... errr.... the bouncer outside Mermaids?? Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 517 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Marshy is out east, they have triads, be afraid Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 The east has the Cosa Nostra too! And a fleet of Young 88's - dont know which is scarier to you R930's haha Oh and the Lovely BBYC has a Loading wharf and so does Halfmoon Bay! We got it all, Lenny can keep his Thomas set Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Crap and Doh!, that's right he's a eastie, knot a westie. In that case just ignore him as he's got squat, bar possibly the cast from Fast and Furious 27 Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Crap and Doh!, that's right he's a eastie, knot a westie. In that case just ignore him as he's got squat, bar possibly the cast from Fast and Furious 27 South easty....dont confuse him with folk like me Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_C 0 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Hi, I have a mooring at Shoal Bay, where I paid for the chunk of seabed my mooring sits on. I recently also got charged an annual fee by the council for use of said chunk of sea bed, at least I think that is what it is for, because it certainly can't be for local facilities. We used to have a grid, but they have pulled that up and put a nice little jetty in its place for people to fish off. If they are going to charge us for nothing, it would be nice if we could have access to the public facilities that they own, i.e. x pier at Westhaven...... I have asked them for an explanation of their annual fee, but doubt I will get one in a hurry....... Link to post Share on other sites
The big T 41 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 You would have paid for the mooring hardware, which is yours. The annual licence fee is for your mooring permit which allows you to occupy the public seabed and occupy your mooring - to the exclusion of anybody else. Methinks good value for the money. In a lot of desirable mooring areas people pay a premium for a good spot - again you are only occupying the seabed with no more implied right than any other mooring owner and your permit can be terminated at any stage by Council with no compensation being paid. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve_C 0 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Ahhhhh, that makes sense. There are quite a few vacant moorings in Shoal Bay now, a lot of owners must have moved onto the marinas ? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Hi Guys,A big thanks to whoever it was that dropped of the bottle of wine on my boat whylst at Oneroa over the weekend with a note encouraging me to keep fighting. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
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