Thanks for your support YNZ

[Mothership 6]

All of what has been said begs the question: who is doing PR for YNZ?

 

If they are really doing all that some have said, they need to shout it from the rooftops, and communicate to their members what they are doing, as it appears the majority have missed it.

[Kiteroa 8]

Ok,I remember some of it now! I'll pick one point they put forward: What sold me was the realisation as to the extent to which YNZ lobby on our behalf. They are working hard behind the scenes on key issues that affect the quality and access to our marine resources. To me that's more important than any of my racing. They make life very hard for commercial fish/shellfish farms setting up in our cruising grounds. It doesn't directly affect me me cause I don't cruise, I just like racing, but I understand the greater value in what they're doing even if it doesn't directly affect me.

Most of the time these resource consent meetings are held at very inconvenient times, say 10:15 on a Tuesday morning. Who's going to show up and contest these plans? Not me, I'm at work and I probably wouldn't remember what time it was anyway, so i'm no good. Besides, no one will listen to me cause I'm one guy. Wouldn't even matter if I was 10 people. That's not enough to stop anything. But when YNZ show up and say they represent something like 500 clubs and 50000 paid up financial members, they have to be given the time of day and are a force to be reckoned with. They whinge and whinge and whinge appeal and carry on and make it so hard for these guys to get a consent through that 9 times from 10 they give up. They're more effective than the Greens will ever be.

 

Maybe when I'm done with racing I might want to go cruising and anchor in a bay without a fish farm in it. For me, that's worth the $300 or whatever they cost me via my racing each year.

 

Sure they do other stuff also, but that's the biggie I remember from our meeting.

 

http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/news/201303/ynz-advocacy-update-march-2013

 

-Not sure who does their PR, probably no one. Maybe ETNZ can put them onto someone good. They're all over effective PR it would seem.

[JK 28]

Armchair admiral, you could look at the figures of $1.6mil in Personnel for 22 employees and read an average of $72k each.

 

YNZ is the "National Sport Body" for sailing in NZ. That sport would be yacht racing, do not think you can classify cruising or idly sailing around the harbour as a sport. I drive to work, that does not mean I drive a car for sport. Your "average Joe Blow" sailor in NZ does not race, so is not involved with sport, should YNZ by providing "substantial initiatives" to assist them? They do provide some level of assistance.

 

Four of the 20 employees (20%) are involved in "Olympic, High Performance & Talent Development" - when over 70% of their income is provided by Sport NZ or Trusts and tagged for specific programmes. Not sure how you get a "high focus" out of that.

 

Topsail, I am betting the letter was written by one person, YNZ employ 22. Maybe you could look at their website and note the 12 staff involved in "National Programmes" - these are not tied in with the Olympics but with local clubs. Although you would say not with local classes, I presume you mean they only deal with the "foreign" ones Optimist/Laser/29er/49er/420/470/RSX and the like, maybe even an older one or two like Finn/OK/Flying Fifteen.

 

I doubt it was YNZ that killed off the local NZ classes. At a centreboard level the Starling still does well, the P cycles up/down sparking into life for the Tanner/Tauranga cup each year, the Jollyboat has a following. You can find clubs that still race the legacy classes if that is your thing, seem to remember an Idle Along Nationals at Birkenhead a few years back & Glendowie has its Arrows, just does not seem to be the wish of the majority though. In keelboat racing there is nothing stronger than the local classes - Y88, Stewart34, R930, E5.9, Piedy, SR26... count the percentage of local boats in the next SSANZ race... You would be hard pushed to find a "foreign" keelboat class, so YNZ have obviously not screwed up the keelboat racing.

 

If you read the annual report you would see that the Olympic/Talent program spent $2.5m out of the $5.1m total operating expenses. Whilst there you could read about the other things they do - Training Race Management/Judging/Umpires/Club Instructor/Keelboat Instructor/Race Coach/Regatta Coach, "Sailing... Have a Go" that introduced 3000 students to sailing last season, Disabled sailing, Junior Classes, Race Management, Cruising and Powerboat, liaising with clubs/ISAF.... seems reasonable for $46 from your club membership each year.

[Guest]

Armchair admiral, you could look at the figures of $1.6mil in Personnel for 22 employees and read an average of $72k each.

 

YNZ is the "National Sport Body" for sailing in NZ. That sport would be yacht racing, do not think you can classify cruising or idly sailing around the harbour as a sport. I drive to work, that does not mean I drive a car for sport. Your "average Joe Blow" sailor in NZ does not race, so is not involved with sport, should YNZ by providing "substantial initiatives" to assist them? They do provide some level of assistance.

 

Four of the 20 employees (20%) are involved in "Olympic, High Performance & Talent Development" - when over 70% of their income is provided by Sport NZ or Trusts and tagged for specific programmes. Not sure how you get a "high focus" out of that.

 

Topsail, I am betting the letter was written by one person, YNZ employ 22. Maybe you could look at their website and note the 12 staff involved in "National Programmes" - these are not tied in with the Olympics but with local clubs. Although you would say not with local classes, I presume you mean they only deal with the "foreign" ones Optimist/Laser/29er/49er/420/470/RSX and the like, maybe even an older one or two like Finn/OK/Flying Fifteen.

 

I doubt it was YNZ that killed off the local NZ classes. At a centreboard level the Starling still does well, the P cycles up/down sparking into life for the Tanner/Tauranga cup each year, the Jollyboat has a following. You can find clubs that still race the legacy classes if that is your thing, seem to remember an Idle Along Nationals at Birkenhead a few years back & Glendowie has its Arrows, just does not seem to be the wish of the majority though. In keelboat racing there is nothing stronger than the local classes - Y88, Stewart34, R930, E5.9, Piedy, SR26... count the percentage of local boats in the next SSANZ race... You would be hard pushed to find a "foreign" keelboat class, so YNZ have obviously not screwed up the keelboat racing.

 

If you read the annual report you would see that the Olympic/Talent program spent $2.5m out of the $5.1m total operating expenses. Whilst there you could read about the other things they do - Training Race Management/Judging/Umpires/Club Instructor/Keelboat Instructor/Race Coach/Regatta Coach, "Sailing... Have a Go" that introduced 3000 students to sailing last season, Disabled sailing, Junior Classes, Race Management, Cruising and Powerboat, liaising with clubs/ISAF.... seems reasonable for $46 from your club membership each year.

 

 

JK, YNZ spent 2.5million on Olympic sailors for the last Olympics.

 

Tell me one other organisation that spends 1/2 their income on a small sector of their sport ( less than 1 % of sailors) while yacht club numbers fall, clubs struggle to remain afloat, classes are being ignored and 22 staff earn good wages fighting silly battles to stop a few mussell farms... While Rome burns.

 

maybe YNZ does a lot for your club,, and I wonder why, but the reality of Knot Me's numbers suggest they are doing very little and making the rich richer. ( namely themselves and a few elite sailors).

 

My Club is not associated and has prospered by not "giving away" many many dollars to an organisation that offers very little. Sure we can't run national events but who cares they are few and far between and cost money to run for a lot of risk.

 

Sorry but NZ Rat, Armchairadmiral and others have it correct. And Mother ship has made a very pertinent point...

 

If they are doing all you say then why are they not telling the customers, whom pay their wages, what they are doing and what value they offer.

 

They need to step up and front up and stop relying on the top of the tree stuff.

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

JK you wouldn,t have a young fellow with Olympic asperartions would you?You wouldn't come from a premier junior North shore club say northern area Who couldn't register enough kids to rum a junior Learn to sail program in the 2011/2012 year ?(Information via John Morgan a high performance coach with YNZ) that should be a warning to the clubs about cost and resting on your laurel and how many kids does have a go collect? there is far more to it than turning up with a trailer full of plastic boats for a day and saying that'l do ,we 60 mile north were having to turn kids away because of lack of placement opertunities and still have a massive fall of after each module .As for the 29er what a Dog the stronger class which originated here the cherub Whoops the 29er's arse both for performance and numbers also cost across the ditch (hell you have to sail state selection in Aus to go to the nats in a cherub)was not wanted by YNZ and they actively discouraged it I can put someone in front of you to explain to you what went on at those meetings if you like .they are there to do what is wanted by their shareholders Ie us but they don't.

[JK 28]

If there is one thing I agree on it is that YNZ should be trumpeting what they do more. It may help with perception they exist solely to rob yachties to pay themselves exorbitant salaries. Personally I have nothing to do with them other than what I read in their regular newsletters & the involvement they have in regattas and club events.

 

However, just to pick off the low hanging fruit so to speak...

Topsail:

How about the NZ Shot-put organisation! Or rowing, cycling, swimming, disabled sports, any of the organisations that receive funding from Sparc for Olympic competition. That money is targeted funding from the government for Olympic campaigns, if it is not spent there then they do not get it.

As said earlier, they do a lot more than the advocacy on mussel farms.

YNZ does do a lot for the clubs I am involved with, we ask for their assistance. Probably not something your club could do as you are not affiliated with YNZ.

Sorry to hear that your club considers running major events not worth the effort. Attitudes like that just might be contributing to the downfall you talk of.

As above, maybe they should be doing more to tell their customers, but that would not be you as you aren't one.

 

nzrat:

I think his desire is more to be an All Black at this stage & not from a northern Nth Shore club sorry but the club did have a full LTS program. Seems to be good retention this year but you cannot force the parents to take the large step to purchase a boat and trailer.

The Cherub had done its dash in NZ long before the 29er existed. It would seem that people vote with their feet that they want international one-design classes.

[armchairadmiral 411]

There are other ways to advocate for members as many volunteer organisations do throughout NZ.Even against mussel / fish farms -- without having to have a $2million overhead organisation to do it.Another way might be as I said earlier to separate out the elite / olympic and make them self funding. I suspect admin is top heavy -- it usually is in organisations not subject to shareholder scrutiny and especially when they are funded by compulsory fees / levys / taxes!Hence arrogance of demand on R930. Some co ordination from a few non highly paid staff could then call on suitably qualified interested members to do RMA type things.That's how our organisation does it and it's very effective both in results and costs.In fact I seem to remember that's how it sort of was before NZYF/ YNZ embarked on the current elitist model!

[Deep Purple 511]

Just jumping into my own thread to perhaps bring it back to topic.

 

In no way am I criticising efforts of YNZ toward youth clubs and small boat sailing. Generally speaking mfrom what I see, they all get excellent value from their levy. Likewise the clubs if the make use of what is there

 

Some other policy matters can swing either way, i.e. marine farming and Takapuna but that is not the subject of this topic. Likewise my prime beef, multiple levies

 

In no way am i criticising volunteers. There would be few that have put as many volunteer hours into sailing than I have over 40 years.

 

And I'm not complaining about the amount. It could be $10 or $1000 for all it matters. $1000 is cheap if there's value behind it. $10 would be better spent buying rum for the OOD after racing if there's not

 

But the issue here is 2 parts. Firstly the manner and timing of the demand for payment which is undeniably draconian.

 

Secondly the benefits of a keelboat class affiliating at all. The reasons presented fall way short as I set out. Keelboats like ours are not going to make use of coaching or management over and above what we already are entitled to via our club levy. KORC of which I'm a volunteer member has not had a meeting for years. The YNZ directory is woeful as a tool to promote your class. Take a scroll through the ones there, a scattering of contact details and virtually no news, no calendars. In fact the whole YNZ is crap as regard the boat register and handicap directories. They even admit it themselves with an apology in the PHRF section thats been there for ages. Looking up boat details is a mishmash of up to date and old data that even the GCSB would find a challenge deciphering.

 

Also I disagree that a non-affiliated class cannot call the winner of a particular series the national champ. Where does YNZ own the words "National" and "Champion". Maybe the organising club can't but the association certainly can.

 

The strength of a class lies in it's unity. Can you imagine the squadron saying "We won't recognise the class rules of an unaffiliated class in our winter series therefore mongrels are allowed to race in division" We'd walk taking our $2400 entry fees and $7500 over the bar with us.

[Guest]

What happens if you do nothing.

 

You can run events youself . Yes / no

 

You can call them the Ross 930 champs. Or even the NZ champs.

 

You can get rum.

 

What gets me is YNZ has been lambasted on several occasions on this site ( NZ sailings biggest forum/info site) and this has been a regular occurance. Yet the only defence they offer to the masses is Zoe and JK defending them.

 

Where is the PR/marketing man?. I bet he says "don't get involved it will blow over"

 

Good PR people in great firms are always pro active in ensuring their customer base is in the loop and they are on top of their game. They have to be to be competitive.

 

The problem with YNZ is they are a monopoly run by people who are only rated by a board and not stakeholders. And I bet the Kpi's set are very average.

 

The stakeholder need more say in the operation. Or... they need to privatize or have competition.

 

Someone from YNZ should be on this forum in a Q & A thread ... at the very least. How can they understand the market if they only rely on a occasional meeting with club officials... if they turn up.

 

If they have nothing to hide and are confident in their systems and process's they should be willing to explain. A bit like how trip advisor rates hotels and the manager replies.

 

All people want is transparancy and value for money. Just like any other

Organisation.

 

Why are they reluctant to front up here?

[Guest]

To answer a few questions and expand on a couple.

 

There are 3 separate sections in the financials for both income and expenditure which is attributed to those sections. YNZ isn't hiding anything as income destined for Olympics is stated as is the expenditure against that, the same applies to the other 2 sections, Club Support and Sport Development.

 

The majority of the income YNZ get is from Sport NZ and as JK mentions I also think it is only given for a specific purpose, that being Olympics. I'd think, guess, if YNZ didn't have a Olympic connection Sport NZ wouldn't be giving them that money.

 

No Affiliation fees, income from PHRF, Registrations and all that sort of stuff us locals have to pay is KNOT attributed to the Olympics nor is there any indication any is spent on anything Olympic.

 

The 'Personnel' 1.6 mill is roughly split 50/50 between 'Club Support' and 'Olympics' it's knot all one or the other. The same applies to Admin costs, again 50/50 there also.

 

The books are very transparent as to what comes in tagged for what use and what goes out for what use.

 

Sparc NZ I think is now called Sport NZ. They gave 3.5 mil in 2012 for Olympic stuff. Other donations/grants or whatever were received from NZ Community Trust, Lion Foundation, Southern Trust, Halburg Trust, TNZ 2000 Trust, ASB Trust and Paraolympic NZ. They totalled a tad over 400K and went to local uses knot Olympics.

 

Of all income YNZ got from everywhere 71.7% was tagged to Olympics, 72.41% of all expenditure went that way. 27.4% in and 27.16% went out under Club Support and it was 0.9% inwards to 0.44% outwards under the Sport Development section. YNZ still have some money in the bank.

 

So I'm knot seeing any conspiracy, signs my or your levies are funding Olympics, PHRF fees are used for PHRF stuff and things like that. In fact this exercise has convinced one partial sceptic YNZ are a lot more straight up and open with funding than said sceptic believed until yesterday, on the finance side at least.

 

But I am going to chuck in a '+1' for SD's last post.

[Zoe 8]

I attended the Commodore's Conference a few years ago. It was excellent and all this stuff was honestly and openly discussed and debated, and many of the skeptics (including reps from clubs planning to disaffiliate) came away as converts.Another was held last year I think and they are held every two years, so every club and class has the opportunity to send someone and have input. Even the 930s if they decide to stay affiliated.

 

I think Jodie (the communciations manager) actually does a pretty good job with the time and resources she has. Anyone who has ever tried to do that role will know how time consuming it is. I guess she could sit on here and spend hours debating stuff with you but they are too busy actually doing it! They have a very good newsletter if you would like to sign up for it, called Briefings, and in response to feedback on here, they started to include more content about what YNZ does.

 

They have a strategic plan that sets out what they are trying to achieve and they do a pretty good job of achieving it (that's not to say that there aren't some things I'd like to see given more focus in the strategic plan! But there are no doubt good reasons for the way it is.)

 

Like any organisation it's not perfect but I think it's easy to make big swooping judgements and a lot harder to actually do a proper job of something.

 

In short, they aren't a group of money grabbing bureaucrats, all the people I know there are hard working professionals doing their best for us as best they can.

 

Yes I will continue to defend them!

 

http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/about-us/what-does-ynz-do

[Mothership 6]

I was waiting for you to chime in, Zoe.

 

So is the issue with YNZ communication with clubs, or the clubs passing this information on to their members? Do (can?) YNZ communicate directly with the individuals who pay them? Either way, it very much looks like the people paying the money aren't being enlightened as to where this money is going, and the good being done with it.

[Zoe 8]

Yep I can answer that (I think).

 

I think YNZ's communication with clubs is as good as it can be. In fact it's very good. The primary basis of this is email newsletters and they are well written and comprehensive and each issue includes a section called "YNZ News" which addresses the achievements and value proposition of the organisation.

 

(Disclaimer I do agree with Phil that letters accompanying invoices could include a lot more 'this is what you get for your $$' and include some proactive mailed communication to clubs prior to each AGM)

 

When I was last involved, YNZ would have loved to communicate with the individual members BUT the clubs can't or won't hand over their databases for privacy reasons, so it's up to the individuals to sign up for email communications individually and to keep their own details up to date.

 

Unfortunately many (dare I say, most?) clubs are pretty weak at communicating with both their own members and with YNZ probably because no-one has time these days. So even knowing who the commodore is, and what his/her email address is, represents a challenge, but YNZ did (and presumably still do) keep up with it as best they can despite this being a time consuming admin heavy job to chase up after each AGM.

 

If it was a public company or city council communicating with the masses then YNZ would send out print newsletters and letters and glossy documents and take out full page ads in the biggest newspaper in the country: YNZ doesn't have the money for this. Simple fact. And I'm sure you wouldn't want them spending your levies on it either. Instead they put their resources into sending good quality content out by email on a regular basis.

 

So you could say you are a yacht club member and you don't know where your YNZ levy goes grumble mumble grumble mumble. BUT if you want to visit their website it's not hard to find out, or even better sign up for the newsletter (and actually read it when it arrives in your inbox) and you'll be reminded about it every couple of weeks. While in reality it doesn't always/often happen, this is our sport, and our national authority, and I think that if as sailors and club volunteers we keep ourselves informed, everyone will probably be happier than if we didn't have a national authority to start with.

 

Put another way, every year almost without fail the Coastal Classic will be on TV1 news, TV3 news, and in the Herald on some shape and form on race day but every year someone will get on here and say "there was no coverage they do a such crap job of promoting it how are we even supposed to know there is a yacht race on if it wasn't for Crew.org.nz" when in fact I don't leave many stones unturned to make sure everyone that wants to, can find out about the race and watch a bit of it... it is hard work! So I can understand why the good people at YNZ aren't jumping onto the forums to defend themselves every five minutes.

[Zoe 8]

PS I work with French Bay as you know and it's never occurred to me to tell our members about what the YNZ levy is for and what the money goes towards. I've just never thought of it. So I guess that helps to answer your question too!

[banaari 27]

In the hope that my subsequent mindless ravings will at least be well-informed mindless ravings, have signed up for YNZ's "Briefings". Thanks Zoe

[Zoe 8]

Well done! It can make for interesting reading!

[smithy09 50]

JK you wouldn,t have a young fellow with Olympic asperartions would you?You wouldn't come from a premier junior North shore club say northern area Who couldn't register enough kids to rum a junior Learn to sail program in the 2011/2012 year ?(Information via John Morgan a high performance coach with YNZ) that should be a warning to the clubs about cost and resting on your laurel and how many kids does have a go collect? there is far more to it than turning up with a trailer full of plastic boats for a day and saying that'l do ,we 60 mile north were having to turn kids away because of lack of placement opertunities and still have a massive fall of after each module .As for the 29er what a Dog the stronger class which originated here the cherub Whoops the 29er's arse both for performance and numbers also cost across the ditch (hell you have to sail state selection in Aus to go to the nats in a cherub)was not wanted by YNZ and they actively discouraged it I can put someone in front of you to explain to you what went on at those meetings if you like .they are there to do what is wanted by their shareholders Ie us but they don't.

Yer miles away NZ rat. JK is on the other side of the bridge. He does absolute sh*t loads of volunteer work for sailing and generally gets shafted for his efforts.. (Tows RIBs the length of the country, then gets kicked off it so someone else can tootle around after the kids..) His Son is a great sailor that does all the Simrads, round NI, Round NZ etc etc in a boat that always punches above its weight.. You really have missed the mark.

 

I onb the other hand belong to a North shore yacht club that produces heaps of Olimpic champs, but somehow my son inherited my crappy helming ability, so no, we don't benifit from YNZ's largesse.. I also was not impressed with the whole Taka takeover attempt by YNZ, and the jury is out for me on how effective they are, so I am watching all this with interest.

 

Don't bag JK. He does more than most and doesn't get paid.

[Guest Saturday Night Special]

point taken Smithy. the point is no is that happy about YNZ no one can do much about other than vent .

 

JK you wouldn,t have a young fellow with Olympic asperartions would you?You wouldn't come from a premier junior North shore club say northern area Who couldn't register enough kids to rum a junior Learn to sail program in the 2011/2012 year ?(Information via John Morgan a high performance coach with YNZ) that should be a warning to the clubs about cost and resting on your laurel and how many kids does have a go collect? there is far more to it than turning up with a trailer full of plastic boats for a day and saying that'l do ,we 60 mile north were having to turn kids away because of lack of placement opertunities and still have a massive fall of after each module .As for the 29er what a Dog the stronger class which originated here the cherub Whoops the 29er's arse both for performance and numbers also cost across the ditch (hell you have to sail state selection in Aus to go to the nats in a cherub)was not wanted by YNZ and they actively discouraged it I can put someone in front of you to explain to you what went on at those meetings if you like .they are there to do what is wanted by their shareholders Ie us but they don't.

Yer miles away NZ rat. JK is on the other side of the bridge. He does absolute sh*t loads of volunteer work for sailing and generally gets shafted for his efforts.. (Tows RIBs the length of the country, then gets kicked off it so someone else can tootle around after the kids..) His Son is a great sailor that does all the Simrads, round NI, Round NZ etc etc in a boat that always punches above its weight.. You really have missed the mark.

 

I onb the other hand belong to a North shore yacht club that produces heaps of Olimpic champs, but somehow my son inherited my crappy helming ability, so no, we don't benifit from YNZ's largesse.. I also was not impressed with the whole Taka takeover attempt by YNZ, and the jury is out for me on how effective they are, so I am watching all this with interest.

 

Don't bag JK. He does more than most and doesn't get paid.

[Guest]

It appears that YNZ do some good work with some Clubs and they appear to be the ones that ask for it.

 

Why should a club ask for help? Shouldn't the governing body be fair and evenhanded to all clubs?

 

It also appears, based in this example, that YNZ are very poor communicators and very poor supporters of Class associations.

 

it is very apparent that YNZ are not proactive and wait until a club is desperate before it acts.

 

Many clubs I have been to or sailed at are not good communicators due to the nature of small clubs run by part time unpaid people. As such they rely heavily on YNZ to communicate with them. after all the officials of many clubs change every year and many clubs have big voids in their admin staff numbers, so they struggle to do the most basic functions... let alone try and communicate with YNZ.

 

This is why YNZ need to get to the clubs and start helping out and forget its focus on others less important issues.

 

NZ Rat is correct with his comments but they do not apply to certain clubs within the Auckland area who are supported above and beyond the normal levels.

 

As for the Ross930 issue. Regardless of those defending YNZ, these guys dropped the ball. And have learnt nothing of past similar issues.

 

And I bet they still have not got on the phone or email and organised a meeting to sort this. As sundreamer has said, this is not about the money but a matter of principal.

 

Sorry but they are taking the piss.

[Guest]

The whole point is that there is a communication black hole, and there has been for as long as I have been involved (I used to be Vice Commodore of Royal Port Nicholson YC, was a club delegate to the Wellington Yachting Association, and was Chair of the NZ Yachting Federation Keel boat Committee in the 1980s).

 

I can well imagine that Yachting NZ (which replaced NZYF) does talk with the clubs. They may well have many happy sessions with yacht club commodores and committees, over scotches and cigars, and may well have solved all the problems which yachting faces in the 21st century but, sadly the results of these discussions and deliberations don't filter down to the average yachtie in the clubs.

 

Since I ceased to have any involvement with sailing administration in the late 1980s, I have contributed hundreds of dollars in fees but have never heard a word (from my club) about national sailing politics and affairs.

 

I get zero feedback from my one remaining club (RNZYS - I used to be a member of RPNYC and RAYC and Evans Bay YMBC and so paid lotsa fees over the years!) and, unless I look at the YNZ website, which is a dreary prospect, I have no sense of what is happening.

 

I do NOT think we are being well served and I suspect that this is the fault of the wider NZ yachting's organisational structure, rather than the efforts of those currently serving NZ yachting.