Torqeedo outboard

[Zozza 293]

As opposed to inboard electric engines, outboards electric engines are not cost prohibitive to me, such as the Toqeedo 2R with remote control.

http://www.torqeedo.com/en/products/outboards/cruise/cruise-2.0-r/M-1230-00.html

 

If I l got one I would i'd want to keep the 24 volt system, required for the e-outboard, separate from the 12V house system.

The solar panels for the house system are going to be flexible and mounted on deck and / or coachroof.

 

My boat is only 26 foot, so I don't have a lot of room for panels other than the 12v flexible solar panels on deck and coach-roof for the house system, so for the 24v system I will have to build stainless steel arch aft to lay them on top of - it may all sound too hard, but thought of not having to eff around with a marine diesel which I have little experience of, plus being able to close up the aperture and gain some speed will be well worth it despite the drawback of limited range and charging dilemmas.

 

The batteries I will require to run the Torqeedo would be two x 180ah 12 V Deep Cycle.

So, will I need 24 volt panels to charge these batteries, so, anyone got any idea how much wattage of 24v solar panels I would need?  150 watts? 200 watts ?

 

Cheers

[erice 732]

200 minimum?

 

250 watt better?

 

but probably need some type of radar arch - hard bimini, to mount 2.5 m2? 

 

half this?

 

[Zozza 293]

A 205 watt hard panel, 24v, measujres 1581×809×40mm from a particular local retailer.

 

I'm thinking of something similar to what you see aft on the boat in this pic 

 

[Zozza 293]

I helped the local agent with some testing on Toqeedos, they are fun and have some balls BUT........

 

the current in Amperes times the source Volts = the power in Watts

 

The unit you linked to uses 200ah for 2 hours range or 100 amps per hour at full tittie. So that's - 100 Amps times 24V = 2400 Watts you'll need to put back in at the pace it's coming out.

 

At 'slow' it uses 20 amps so that's - 20 Amps times 24V = 480 Watts

 

Ouch! That's a lot of panels.......................... assuming I have it right.

 

Yep the range is crap compared to a diesel. It all depends what I can live with.

You pays yer money and makes yer choice I guess...

 

I think the 2 hour range is at full throttle...if you go half that, i.e about 3 knots, then you can travel many more hours before the batteries crap out

[Zozza 293]

I guess If I know I have eff all range, then I will only use the motor when I need it. If I keep the diesel I will probably motor quite a bit more as it's there and I am inherently a lazy basterd, I know I will use it.... I guess you sort of adapt to what you have. 

My thinking is, if there is wind I should be sailing, and I just use the e-outboard to get in and out of marina where you must have auxiliary power. 

However,,,,if the wind craps out some sunday and I am 30nm from home then I could well be sending a text to the boss along the lines of "see you tuesday not monday"

Always a bloody compromise boats huh.

[Zozza 293]

Here is a guy who is using a Torqeedo 2 tiller version on 5000 lb yacht, which is onnly about 500 lbs less than mine.

He uses two 120ah batteries -- which I would have thought is a little light in ah -- and he also "cheats' as he charges his battereries via shore power

Still, an interesting read

http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/torqeedo-update.html

http://barnaclebillholcomb.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/torqeedo-update.html

[Black Panther 1,586]

You don't have to put it in at the same rate you take it out.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Can you wrap panels around the mast?

[Zozza 293]

Can you wrap panels around the mast?

 

Ha ha. 

 

Mind you, this fella is wrapping them round his boom!

[bazzathemammoth 37]

Dont forget that fully discharging lead acid batteries will wreck them. Also it takes a long time to charge from 80-100%. This means that running a typical cruising battery discharge cycle of 30-80% will leave you with only 1/2 of the batterys stated capacity as usable.

 

Also not all ah are equal. You will need to consider the ah rate with the amount of amps the outboard requires. Higher currents mean less ah due to internal resistance of the battery

[erice 732]

don't really see how wrapping normal flexible panels around the mast would work

 

two problems

 

1. - even a flexi panel isn't going to want to bend round the sharp front of a mast

 

2 - a typical 12v panel is made of many mini-cells in series

 

if even 1 of those mini-cells is shaded it will end up consuming the majority of the power generated by the cells that are working,  like a dead cell in a car battery

 

a panel that was always half in shade would output next to nothing

 

however

 

if you knew a flexi solar panel maker, overseas 

 

and could get them to make up two 300cm x 10cm panels, (horror to ship)

 

1 for each side of the mast, you could be on to something

 

but 1 panel would always be doing nothing and would probably need to be electrically switched out of cct

 

and you could forget about those Kevin

 

much more efficient to simply put regular flexi- panels on a custom curved bimini 

[Zozza 293]

don't really see how wrapping normal flexible panels around the mast would work

 

two problems

 

1. - even a flexi panel isn't going to want to bend round the sharp front of a mast

 

2 - a typical 12v panel is made of many mini-cells in series

 

if even 1 of those mini-cells is shaded it will end up consuming the majority of the power generated by the cells that are working,  like a dead cell in a car battery

 

a panel that was always half in shade would output next to nothing

 

however

 

if you knew a flexi solar panel maker 

 

and could them to make up two 300cm x 10cm panels, 1 for each side of the mast, you could be on to something

 

but 1 panel would always be doing nothing

 

and you probably couldn't have mast steps

 

much more efficient to simply put regular flexi- panels on a custom curved bimini 

He was taking the mick. Wrapping panels around a mast is ridiculous.

[John B 106]

It's best to get the one with the progressive control ,uses less and is generally more efficient.

[wheels 543]

Everyone has good advice except for a couple of missed points. First is, flexi panels are not as efficient as rigid panels. So you will need more in either area or time to get the same power as a rigid will produce.
As your Battery bank drops, you will get less output. So for a scenario like KM described, 100A for 1hr = 2400W, but as the battery drops in output, the amount of full throttle thrust ability drops also. So So you never get a full hr at full thrust or you need much more capacity.
For charging, you need to be able to get what you used back in to the bank in the limited time of charge ability during sunlight hrs. That's a lot of Solar panels because you end up with a very limited time window of max sun.
Electric propulsion is good for getting in and out of a Marina etc. But for longer hrs of motoring, they have major draw backs. Even with LiPo batteries. Sailing boats are just too limited for the charging requirements, unless you can hook up to shore power each night or have a decent genset, but that creates noise and defeats the no engine benefit.
2400W is a little over 3Hp. That's at full charge. That power drops off really fast as the battery level drops. So honestly, a 3Hp outboard is going to be by far the better choice. They are reliable, cheaper than an electric system and light weight. Far lighter than batteries and all the rest for a 2400W electric.

[Black Panther 1,586]

Most boats sit idle for an absolute minimum of five days per week, while the sun shines.It is not at all unreasonable to do your calculations based on 5-6 days charging per one day of use. For a dirt dweller who only goes out on weekends.

[ex TL systems 63]

give it a miss you will be green enough with a 4hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboard, even a 2 hp Honda will likely perform better than electric more convenient and for a fraction of the cost, plant some trees with the money you save.

[Black Panther 1,586]

But in your example you are assuming he has powerboat not a sailboat. What I would do in that situation is walk up the road and have an ice cream. Then when the wind picked up I would motor for 10 mins to get out of the marina and sail to gh

[wheels 543]

Most boats sit idle for an absolute minimum of five days per week, while the sun shines.It is not at all unreasonable to do your calculations based on 5-6 days charging per one day of use. For a dirt dweller who only goes out on weekends.

 

A good comment, but I always factor in the I need it now because, scenario. Think back to the night in that Bay on GB BP. I guess I always come from a point of view that when you most need something, the weaknesses of the something comes to the surface. 

 

exTL also has a good point. These little things are trolling motors. Not designed to work at full capacity all their life.

 

KM's description has got my heart rate up already

But sorry, I do have to disagree with FLA vs AGM. A good FLA will beat a good AGM or Gel anyday. Our biggest problem here in NZ is that we don't get to see real Batteries. Everyone is importing some very average batteries. And they hide A LOT of information that is important to understand. One of the most common would be the way the Ahr rating of a battery is obtained. There are many mirrors to reflect the smoke with in the battery industry. Actually, I have found one Auckland Solar provider that many mention here often, to be one of the worst for hiding details and then not covering warranties. Take a very careful look at warranties of the many battery suppliers and read the fine print. Most all will give you some very pathetic numbers of discharge for warranty. Like to get 5yrs warranty, you can't discharge below 20% and then if one fails, you get only what the battery is worth as a percentage. I have German FLA's that have a 10yr warranty at 50% cycle and full replacement if one fails. They were more expensive, but not that much more.

LiPo is certainly the best technology, but the price is the biggest issue for most.

 

I have been working with a friend here in Blenheim that has just spent $20K on a Solar system for his home. It's not a huge system, it was a case of buying some very sophisticated smart charging/controlling/Grid supply equipment, so he could learn a heap of real everyday data. It has been a huge eye opener for both of us. We can be anywhere in the country and pull up what the system is doing right now n real time as well as a history of every single piece of info you could ever wish for. What it has boiled down to is that even with prices of Solar gear where it is at now, it is still really hard to justify going to solar if you have grid supply to the home already. Even with the current cost of LiPo, it still does not stack up. When the Tesla battery is finally on the market, that will change I expect, providing the supplier does not get greedy. Seeing as Genesis is likely going to be the supplier, I am not holding my breath on that one.

[erice 732]

don't forget

 

boat in question

 

already has a nice, shiny, low hrs, 14hp beta inboard diesel

 

so a 3hp outboard hung off the stern

 

shouldn't be in the mix

[wheels 543]

I missed that. No brainer then. Stick with whats already there.