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Covid 19 and liveaboards


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Successfully battled nearly 8 knot winds chugging around to GH yesterday for a fuel/water fill.  No stone throwing locals observed.  Quite odd around Tiri Passage and not seeing a boat anywhere...  Did observe one ~40 foot motorist anchored at the entrance to Mahurangi (fishing).  Didn't think that was in the spirit of lockdown.  Funnily I could not see any name on the boat, almost as if he knew he was being naughty and didn't want to be reported....

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From Bailys

Is your boat covered by insurance, if being used during the Covid-19 Level 3 & 4 Lockdown?

If you use your boat, having been told by the Government that you shouldn't, then the short answer is "No". It would be regarded as a reckless act and/or wilful misconduct, and your pleasure craft insurance policy contains an exclusion for that.

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"Is your boat covered by insurance, if being used during the Covid-19 Level 3 & 4 Lockdown?"

 

Coincidentally, just been through some hoops with Baileys, who have communicated very effectively and quickly during lockdown.  I needed to renew my policy, fortunately they checked when I mentioned we live aboard and cruise around - discovered that I had not actually been insured for the last 3 years as the underwriter had changed, along with the policy.  The new policy (that I didn't even have a copy of) said no cover for liveaboards.  I had specified exactly what our plans were when we insured with them originally so slightly dismayed at all this...  Got it tidied up - basically living aboard puts you in a high-risk category that attracts a higher premium.  No surprises there.

The new email from them will mean that I will have to check to see if all the $$$$$ that I have paid are of any value.  If I find that I am not insured I might just say F'k it and go and do what we need to do, which is get on a mooring on Barrier for the winter.

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The Baileys email said "Unfortunately they do see live aboards as a higher risk and therefore charge more and have a higher excess in this situation"

Usual unsurprising insurance industry smokescreen bullshit.  Very good at taking "their" money off you....  Anyway, I've emailed Baileys to clarify what our situation is.  My understanding is that we are allowed to move for "safety" reasons, which makes sense as long as we know what "safety" they are referring to?

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2 concepts:

1. Passive risk when not in use eg on moooring or marina. Fire, weather, hit by another boat out of control etc.

2. Dynamic risk when in use eg collision, grounding, dragged anchor, dropped rig, gas or electrical issues etc etc.

#1 is low but not zero.

#2 is higher.

Liveaboards do more of #2 than #1 hence higher risk and premium. Regardless of your personal experience and track record statistically risk increases with use. When you buy insurance you (perhaps unwittingly) buy into this statistical model. If you don’t like it don’t buy it!

Similar concept to cars ie risk increases from low to higher as you drive away from home.

 

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2 hours ago, Aleana said:

2 concepts:

1. Passive risk when not in use eg on moooring or marina. Fire, weather, hit by another boat out of control etc.

2. Dynamic risk when in use eg collision, grounding, dragged anchor, dropped rig, gas or electrical issues etc etc.

#1 is low but not zero.

#2 is higher.

Liveaboards do more of #2 than #1 hence higher risk and premium. Regardless of your personal experience and track record statistically risk increases with use. When you buy insurance you (perhaps unwittingly) buy into this statistical model. If you don’t like it don’t buy it!

Similar concept to cars ie risk increases from low to higher as you drive away from home.

 

Hmmm, I was actually more interested in trying to work out what the hell I'm insured for, but thanks for the response.  I'd be keen to see any figures you have but I'm assuming you are just conceptualising?  Try these completely opposite concepts:

1. Boat kept on marina and rarely used or maintained.  Owner inexperienced, more $$ than sense, boat used solely for  week holiday in summer.  A disaster waiting to happen.

2. Owner-occupier living aboard.  Experienced in all things marine from a lifetime spent on boats.  Boat maintained to a high standard at all times.  

I would not assume liveaboards are more #2 than #1 because it would be a complete f'in guess.  But hell, I'm not in insurance!! 8>)

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Yes you’re right in your example risk #1 is probably worse than #2 because of the specific extra details you’ve outlined. But in the insurance scenario how do they assess that at time of underwriting? Can you imagine them asking you “Are you an accident waiting to happen with more money then sense?” or “Are you a sensible, safe and experienced mariner?”. They obviously can’t so instead use general questions and statistical models based on a large pooled risk concept plus some additional personalisation of risk as far as they can eg age, location, usage etc. But these questions are just proxies for risk indicators but often very crude.

Car insurers have started to improve on this by offering more accurate risk-based premiums by getting you to download their App which assesses your actual driving behaviour (acceleration, braking, location, time of day, weather, traffic, texting & driving etc) and they are using this as far more accurate indicator of true risk than a bunch of general questions at time of sale - resulting in real-time premiums that literally vary by hour of the day and how you’re driving.

But boat insurance is a long way off that...

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But that’s been shown to be an inaccurate indicator. Many newbies to boating (rightly) go and get some basic competency quals and these might help but we also know many boaties with zero qualifications but have accumulated a lifetime of boating experience that is far more valuable than a newbie with a fist full of certificates. So in short, it’s not easy hence the fallback model of general stats tends to dominate.

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I have to say Bailey's are on to it with communication.  I got this back today and they quote the insurers:

“Thanks for referring this through,

Our position is  that the clients cover continues but every claim will be assessed (when it can be assessed) in its own circumstances and with New Zealand Governments activity restrictions in mind.

The client is covered for usual risks/perils if they were caught out there before the lock down or the vessel is their normal everyday accommodation, i.e. their bubble.

We appreciate that the client has been caught in an unfortunate situation, however they will need to do their very best to mitigate any potential loss, i.e. remaining in one location, if safe and secure.”

Pretty reasonable response to my situation, seems like a pragmatic approach rather than a dogma.

I will also be having a look at the CHCH option.

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