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The Sounds Murders back in the News


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The compensation for being wrongfully convicted has a start / reference point of $100,000 per annum after 20 years Scott would stand to collect $2 Mil which is a paltry sum considering the ordeal he and his family have had to and continue to weather.

I would not have a clue regarding his guilt or innocence but it is pretty damned difficult to see off the entire legal might of the state as an individual if unfortunately you are plucked from your normal daily existence and convicted and subsequently imprisoned for a crime you did not commit.

https://www.innocenceproject.org/

 

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2 hours ago, wheels said:

No I don't think they were dishonest. But certainly not what we today would consider as "Good" Detective/Policing skills. All those Detectives bringing about similar results of many wrongly convicted people are all gone from the force today. They were old school. Bad habits, non professional. They viewed a suspect as if they were judge and jury and convicted them in their own minds, instead of looking at and for facts and facts alone. Today, our Police tend to be a lot more "professional", receive much better training and have had many examples of very poor Policing history which has actually resulted in major improvements today.
The rest comes down to the ability of the Defense and Prosecution providing and arguing those facts. To be honest, I really think if the Watson case was presented in court today, we may actually have a very different outcome. There are so many holes in the story, you could drive a bus through them. Not being privy to the defense info presented in court, I can only assume many of those points were never argued. The main hole in the story I see is purely time. There is simply no possible way that Watson could have traveled the distances that were described within the time stated. And that time discrepancy is by no means small. It is huge. Absolutely impossibly huge. A complete physical impossibility. The only way it could have been done is in a power boat. Was this ever argued??

The main area I still have real concern with though, is the Gvt Officials and their seemingly poor ability to view facts and say something is wrong with this case. But then again, if they are bound under the same way the law works with needing new evidence, maybe it is not their fault entirely either.

Spot on Wheels.  Yes, the time issue IS the biggest hole of all in the prosecution case.  Simply impossible for a boat that would make 5 knots max under power.  This is best covered by Keith Hunter in his documentary and book. Once I saw and read Keith's work (many years ago now) , I knew the whole case was bullshyte.

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3 hours ago, lateral said:

Why weren't the hairs found on first examination?

They simply did not exist.

Those that were “discovered” at the second ESR forensic examination would have stuck out like dogs balls originally.

This guy never got the support of the legal nor sailing community due to a heavy overlay of character smearing by the NZ police plain and simple.

I fully expect when Inspector Pope finally pops his clogs a sea of endearment will wash over him and his teams dodgy dealings as they did with Hutton.

 

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13 hours ago, lateral said:

Planting evidence is not dishonest?

Not in my book, and it is also illegal & perverting the course of justice.

Hutton definitely, and perhaps in SW's case.

Why weren't the hairs found on first examination?

What evidence was planted?
If you are referring to the Plastic bag and Olivia's hairs suddenly being found, that has not been proven as tampering. It is only speculation.

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At the moment, it is speculation. I am not saying it was not purposeful, but proving the evidence was tampered with is not going to be easy. However, incompetence, well yes and that is the loophole in which they are using to bring this case back to trial. The evidence was not handled in the way that it should have been under normal lab prceedures.


We should not paint all in such positions as corrupt. There is always going to be situations where someone may well be. But if we just give in to a view that all Police are corrupt, then we are in a worse situation. It brings about anarchy and tears apart a society. And I also have several close friends in the Police Force and they are great guys and totally honest and saying the Police are corrupt is an insult to them and others good cops in the force.
But as this is not in the open discussion forum, I will not take this argument further.

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3 hours ago, Black Panther said:

blanket hairs and discovered 15cm and 25cm blonde hairs that ultimately proved to be from Olivia or someone from her maternal blood line. Obviously SW was having an affair with Olivia's mother.😁

All joking aside, the hair testing is not sophisticated enough to know 'blood lines" as anything more than a bit of a guess.
I mean - blonde hairs are unlikely to be those of Maori woman, so its easy to say that therefore it is "250,000 times more likely that the hair was Olivia's than the Maori lady".  And yeah, Ok, before any smart alec says anything, no that is not a verbatim quote from the case files, it is just an paraphrasing of something similar that the forensic hair lab lady said at the trial - if you want to know her exact words, go read Keith Hunters book.

The jury were basically dumbo's eager to believe whatever some clown with  a fancy sounding medical degree has, so when they hear "250,000" times more likely they get all impressed, when in reality it is pure junk science.

And why only two hairs?  For godsake - she would have shed hairs everywhere if she really were inside his boat, no matter how much cleaning he did, any forensic team worth their salt would know something is very fishy that the investigative team only found two hairs.

The whole hair thing was / is bullsh*t, as is everything else the prosecution put together for this case. 

 

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Wheels here’s the reality, you plod off one day ambling along in your usual daily existence and wham all your worst nightmares strike you like a biblical plague of confusion loss of control and chaos all state funded by the police force you never ever thought  would come at you hell bent on putting your arse in jail guilty or not.

You mention anarchy well there is no place for false imprisonment in a society I will support ever.

Open your eyes this sh*t goes on and will continue to whilst we turn a blind eye to police empowerment.

Recent events and activities like Task Force Raptor refusing to support the wearing of body cameras and the subterfuge regarding a push to militaristic general arming shine a clear light as to the intentions of your great bunch of guys.

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For all the failings of the NZ police force the one that sticks the most for me is Peter Ellis.

Crikey his mum lived the lasting years of her life sharing his nightmare fark nobody came to their assistance none of us ever made a effort to assist this gay childcare worker that was a victim of a state driven witch hunt Salem style.

Makes me sick to think about the son that burdened his mum with a state funded injustice.

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Quite right Priscilla ---- and general DISarming of the population, or at least the law abiding  population. We're all exposed to the same sort of threat of the individual facing the might of the State.. And individual rights are under continuous threat in favour of the so called common good.

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Nothing common or good happening for the victims of state funded injustice.

The recent refusal to invest  in attaching body cameras to the NZ  police force sounds alarm bells for me.

Having ready access to live evidence would be of such benefit to justice outcomes so why did the police not agree.

I have whanau and employees that are regularly subject to race based interest to put it politely by the police usually whilst driving surely a body cam would simplify matters.

 

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Biased views, just like Racism come about from ignorance. Biased views of the Gvt or Police or whomever comes about in exactly the same way.
Maybe the evidence was tampered with. Maybe it wasn't. We don't know and we should not jump to silly conclusions based on the past. That is paranoia.
Yes we need to use the past to learn from and one can only hope that we have used those past situations and have seen improvements. If we don't, then we are no different than the idiots in the US that believe they have the right to own assault rifles to protect themselves against their Gvt.
The SW evidence situation needs to be worked out in court. If you understand how hard it would have been to tamper with that particular evidence, and if it did in fact happen that way, then we have to consider a situation of extreme conspiracy and an operation of the calibre that one would expect from an SAS secret raid. I consider that scenario as the least likely. But I could more easily believe incompetence due to lack of skill and procedures in a Forensic lab back in those days.

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2 hours ago, wheels said:

Biased views, just like Racism come about from ignorance. Biased views of the Gvt or Police or whomever comes about in exactly the same way.
Maybe the evidence was tampered with. Maybe it wasn't. We don't know and we should not jump to silly conclusions based on the past. That is paranoia.
Yes we need to use the past to learn from and one can only hope that we have used those past situations and have seen improvements. If we don't, then we are no different than the idiots in the US that believe they have the right to own assault rifles to protect themselves against their Gvt.
The SW evidence situation needs to be worked out in court. If you understand how hard it would have been to tamper with that particular evidence, and if it did in fact happen that way, then we have to consider a situation of extreme conspiracy and an operation of the calibre that one would expect from an SAS secret raid. I consider that scenario as the least likely. But I could more easily believe incompetence due to lack of skill and procedures in a Forensic lab back in those days.

Not bias as such, just based on observations of previous and current police practises. they have their share of the good, bad and the indifferent. Pope thought he was destined for greatness, SW in jail was a feather in his cap, (he thought) try as he might, he never made it to the top???? maybe his superiors knew or saw something that wouldn't have done the image any good. They are very sensitive about that image, see Wally Haumaha, ask Louise Nicolas, the late Peter Ellis, David Bain, SW,  Rex Haig, etc. etc. One can only hope the new commissioner is their is a new broom, just in the door who will give us reason to see things differently. A huge job and not for the faint hearted, after all the current police culture takes no prisoners. Civilians excluded.

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36 minutes ago, Steve Pope said:

One can only hope the new commissioner is their is a new broom, just in the door who will give us reason to see things differently. A huge job and not for the faint hearted, after all the current police culture takes no prisoners. Civilians excluded.

In my view the new commissioner is a slightly less obnoxious version of Bush, selected primarily for his political obedience.

The problem with modern police forces, like the military, its the best "politicians" who get to the top, not the best operators

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41 minutes ago, Sabre said:

Very cryptic... 

Is it to do with this?

http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.asp

Bizarre that the police wanted the details suppressed but SW didn't...

Watson appeared before the court again on 28 April and was remanded until 29 May. Watson’s lawyer asked the court to lift the suppression order but police opposed this.

That link doesn't work.  In itself it is unimportant but I see now that it is all part of a global conspiracy (I just wanted to join in)

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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122287072/scott-watson-says-hell-never-get-justice?fbclid=IwAR0nihj5UaqsoFK9j11i1Wf9776eZnTE2S5QLvcTyIC6vyW8cE3b5kbmBRw

When Scott Watson heard in June that his case would be reconsidered by the Court of Appeal, he thought he had finally got another chance to prove his innocence. But, as Mike White discovers, Watson now believes he’s being set up to fail.

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Sadly for Scott the road to any form of justice has long been paved with layer after layer of falsehoods and will forever stretch its arc of prejudice and harm well over the horizon of his time.

This  travesty of injustice continues and including his sister by innuendo not fact in this foul legal nightmare sums up the establishments firm commitment to never admit wrong in this and many other contentious legal cases.

A plague on all their houses I say.

 

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