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This last picture is taken right now to my right...(with the lap top that I am typing this to you on)   : )  no its not on my boat... 

But I just want you to understand that I am not playing...internet stuff.......that is less than a third of the bank I am currently putting in.

And YES 20 years IS the design time for Commercial AGMs. Please read again about cycle parameters. 

I am a super practical person. I have limited finances. SO...Cost. Reliability. Longevity. Proof of product. Appropriate for circumstances .  Thats what I do. / and what I always tell anyone else to do. 

I have no problem with any Lithium tech, and it will be incredibly important . As I said, the only benefit at the moment is weight. It is far from cheaper on any scale you wish.. (amp/ hrs versus $) I say this with no zealotry intent. I wish it was...To say Lithium is proven is quite true. Look around at power tools , and a heap more. Cars for example also. But lets face it..weight is a governing factor here. 

SO.. I let my first post stand. Unless you need weight savings, there is no direct benefit of  lithium tech... (Oh and it is a rare metal)

 

 

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If you are interested in the size differences and electrical differences of lithium Iron Phosphate and Lead Acid AGM batteries,  I have started to put my battery compartment together this weekend.

I'm very interested in this. Which brand, how are they managed, what charging system you use etc. And if all that's shipping cost, you obviously bought these overseas from somewhere, not local. W

Anyone that has charges this type of chemistry through a shunt with a coulomb counter can verify these are about 99% or more efficient.    This post was not intended to be a tutorial or a

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7 hours ago, idlerboat said:
On 3/09/2020 at 10:19 PM, Dtwo said:

And Idlerboat - you will never get 20 years from AGMs in a cruising environment.  They like being topped up and that isn't that comment when you live on them 4/7.  I have had several people tell me their experiences with AGMs dying after 2-3 years.

Im not sure what that means ? AGM s do not require any physical (apart from electrical) maintenance.  They can be installed upside down quite happily.

I think what D2 is meaning is that it is not always Convenient to keep a battery bank fully charged when living on the boat 24/7. And in most instances, no you won't get 20yrs from a AGM. But nor will you from any LA battery type. The life of any battery us simply the number of cycles it can provide. The number of cycles is summed by the depth of discharge.
Longevity between Gel/AGM/FLA is a very difficult one to judge. It is dependent on what the Manufacturer is designing the battery for. No Maintenance batteries lend themselves to Remote Power Backup systems and thus the majority tend to be built for that. But you can get Gel/AGM designed specifically for Deep cycle apps as well and the one designed for such, can actually give a better life that an FLA. But you pay for it.
For instance
Battery Charging Faults - Schaudt Elektroblock, Reich E ...
Please note the difference in the Long Life against their standard Gel.

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idlerboat, as a 'super practical person' i am surprised that you would only see the weight factor as an advantage for lithium batts.  so, here's a couple of things i have found to be fantastic about mine -

- I'm able to stick 125 amps in until they are full 

- they don't need to be fully charged - they are sitting here at present at 58% while I'm on shore power

- battery voltage is incredibly stable throughout the discharge cycle

I'm not interested in changing your mind, but it does help to consider all the factors that affect the choice between different battery technology

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I have a 35amp AGM battery that's been raced, rallied, rolled and generally treated like sh*t for the best part of easy 10 and quite possibly nudging 15 years. It still holds a perfect charge for months on end untouched. Often sucked bone dry (I use it to power a hooka) and hardly ever topped up using big grunt or smart grunt, often just jumper leads off the house bank or via older school solar only.

The thing is a genuine freak.

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Super capacitors are also an alternative. I know of a number of installations with solar charging. As a technology they are streets ahead of "chemistry" based storage.

They will definitely ramp up in their usage and the price will come down a lot over the next few years. 

Here is a link to a commercially available stand alone power supply .

https://solarbatteriesonline.com.au/product/sirius-energy-storage-capacitor-module-3-55kwh-48v/

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Actually Super Capacitor is a not actually what they are. A true Super or Ultra Capacitor is something quite different. Commonly found in Computers. But also used as regenerative storage devices. They cannot be used for the kind of battery we need, simply because their Voltage is linear to Capacity. In other words, as you charge it, the Voltage increases and discharge, voltage decreases in a linear way. Also they self discharge far too fast for long term energy storage.
The Super Capacitor battery is still a Lead Acid battery, but they use part of the technology that is used in a super capacitor. Its cell construction contains a standard lead-acid battery positive electrode and standard sulphuric acid electrolyte. The Super capacitor part is a specially prepared negative carbon-based electrode that stores electrical energy via double layer capacitance. It is this Carbon electrode that provides the protection from sulfation, when the Battery is partially charged/discharged, as well as the other significant benefits in performance.  The resulting cell performs with characteristics beyond either a lead-acid cell or a supercapacitor, with charge and discharge rates, cycle life, efficiency and performance all enhanced. The Battery is more commonly known as the Carbon Foam, or Lead Carbon Battery. An Ozy conpany coined the Super Capacitor for their design.

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17 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

have a 35amp AGM battery that's been raced, rallied, rolled and generally treated like sh*t for the best part of easy 10 and quite possibly nudging 15 years. It still holds a perfect charge for months on end untouched. Often sucked bone dry (I use it to power a hooka) and hardly ever topped up using big grunt or smart grunt, often just jumper leads off the house bank or via older school solar only.

The thing is a genuine frea

There always has to be one that makes a mockery of us Nerds 😁
I was talking to a Boaty once about all the nerdy stuff about Batteries and Charging and getting the most out if them and he too replied with, well I just have a simple start battery and it gets abused daily and yet it is now well over 10yrs old and still performing just fine. Kind of blows my discussion out of the water when that happens.

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5 hours ago, wheels said:

There always has to be one that makes a mockery of us Nerds 😁

Yeap that one sure does. I checked it this morning after that post to find it's sitting at 12.55V, I can't remember the last time I used or charged it.

I've never had a battery that's been given the sh*t this has or has lasted as long. It's a no name brand as well.

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