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Flares no more?


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48 minutes ago, Fish said:

Yeah, but KM, if you were sinking in Arkles Bay, you probably would have been able to walk ashore...

None of that explains why I should be compelled to carry flares.

The flares I saw were on Bastile Day, whilst off the Channel Islands (France). Triangulated to the local port. I've never heard of a flare being used in anger. Best example is yachts offshore, that have activated an EPIRB, rescue vessel is approaching, contact on VHF, so the yacht sets off a flare to get a visual. Great for Cat 1. We could argue for Cat 3, but Cat 4 & 5? Seriously?

You must be a sh*t load lot taller than me.

No one is compelling you carry pyros but many think those that don't are dumbarses.

Horses for courses dude so mid ocean pyros could have issues exactly like VHF does in some bays we use like Arkles. That's why those who aren't dumbarses carry a full inventory for uses in as many situations as possible.

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6 minutes ago, KM... said:

No one is compelling you carry pyros but many think those that don't are dumbarses.

Ermmm, think you need to fact check that.

If I wasn't being compelled to carry pyros, do you think I'd spend so much time going on about it on here?

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34 minutes ago, Fish said:

If you did the same at 3 am on a night that was a bit rainy and windy, how many people would have seen it? In Arkle

Probably a very similar number to those who would hear you on VHF at 3am.
Assuming yours was working, like mine was 24hrs before I need to use it in vengeance to find..... opps, it suddenly wasn't.

It appears where we differ is I'm not willing to gamble on my or my crews lives for a measly $100 but you are.

and we're back to horse for courses.

It happened about an hour after sunset.

 

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1 hour ago, KM... said:

Probably a very similar number to those who would hear you on VHF at 3am.
Assuming yours was working, like mine was 24hrs before I need to use it in vengeance to find..... opps, it suddenly wasn't.

It appears where we differ is I'm not willing to gamble on my or my crews lives for a measly $100 but you are.

and we're back to horse for courses.

It happened about an hour after sunset.

 

You keep on forgetting your phone KM. The number isn't complicated. It starts and ends with a one, and has a one in the middle.

Alternatively you can just try *500, and get CG straight away, you know, of you just need a tow or something.

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12 hours ago, Fish said:

You keep on forgetting your phone KM. The number isn't complicated. It starts and ends with a one, and has a one in the middle.

Alternatively you can just try *500, and get CG straight away, you know, of you just need a tow or something.

Are you priming that spade for a big weekend in the garden?

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7 minutes ago, KM... said:

Are you priming that spade for a big weekend in the garden?

No, No, I'm getting a sense of de ja vu already. Like we've had this debate before or something.

The regulations are what they are - currently a complete shambles, still in draft form (refer the other thread), with major conflicts on requirements.

I am agreeing with your point that you should use or consider ALL available forms of communication, which you are putting would mean I should be carrying flares. Fair call. I was just wanting to turn that around and say that a phone is a legit form of communication, esp in Arkles Bay.

In my view (and I respect yours and others views on it) that flares are not a lot different to carrying a steel bucket and tar, to light a smokey fire to signal distress. That used to be a requirement / standard practice back in the day. And flares were a massive step up on that method. I'm now putting that flares have become the steel bucket and tar, and there is a wide range of better options. I'm going to take a guess you aren't carrying a steel bucket and tar on the Reptile?

Truth of the matter, I still have flares on my boat. I do like the idea of orange smoke flares - all of my boating is in daylight now. But in respect to racing and safety, I'm not seeing the need to carry them. There are so many requirements to meet for Cat 4 that simply don't add value, a sail repair kit?

I'm only racing casually / infrequently at the moment, due to family commitments, but I still need to ensure I comply with the regulations. At best I'm doing Cat 4 races, mainly Cat 5. I like to keep my boat safe, but I'm only sailing between Weiti, GH and Rakino. A trip to Kawau is a big trip now. I get no benefit from all of this stuff, and it collectively forms a barrier to my participation in racing. It is far easier for me to just go windsurfing. Cheaper, loads faster, and none of the administrative headache.

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I’m betting there was a few diehards that keep their bucket of tar until they couldn’t row out to their boat anymore 

“Can’t trust them new fangle flare things you know”

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8 minutes ago, Jon said:

I’m betting there was a few diehards that keep their bucket of tar until they couldn’t row out to their boat anymore 

“Can’t trust them new fangle flare things you know”

And none of those fire extinguisher things

a bucket of sand, painted red, marked FIRE for the fighting of...

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

I’m betting there was a few diehards that keep their bucket of tar until they couldn’t row out to their boat anymore 

“Can’t trust them new fangle flare things you know”

Given that sailing is generally an anachronism in and of itself, that's a reasonable assumption.

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

In my view that flares are not a lot different to carrying a steel bucket and tar, to light a smokey fire to signal distress.

That explains it all, your knowledge of modern flares is woefully lacking. It's no wonder your view of them is so WTF.

As I have had quite a bit of experience with them I can very easily see the big easy cheap value they can provide in some situations. Which is the same experiance that tells me in many places up the NE coast my phone is useless and I need something to fill that gap.

 

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22 minutes ago, KM... said:

That explains it all, your knowledge of modern flares is woefully lacking. It's no wonder your view of them is so WTF.

As I have had quite a bit of experience with them I can very easily see the big easy cheap value they can provide in some situations. Which is the same experiance that tells me in many places up the NE coast my phone is useless and I need something to fill that gap.

 

KM, we have differing views, lets accept that.

I think my knowledge of modern flares is fine, I have personally set off a large number.

I've no problem you taking flares up the NE coast. But as I said earlier, a big trip for me now is to Kawua, normally sailing between Weiti GH and Rakino - but I'm still compelled to carry flares. I don't see a benefit in that. I'm getting the feeling we are debating apples and oranges.

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1 hour ago, Fish said:

KM, we have differing views, lets accept that.

I think my knowledge of modern flares is fine, I have personally set off a large number.

I've no problem you taking flares up the NE coast. But as I said earlier, a big trip for me now is to Kawua, normally sailing between Weiti GH and Rakino - but I'm still compelled to carry flares. I don't see a benefit in that. I'm getting the feeling we are debating apples and oranges.

There's no legal requirement to carry flares in NZ as a recreational boater. 

YNZ require you to carry flares for racing because World Sailing requires adherence to SOLAS and COLREGS requires flares. 

Ultimately your sailing club can contract out of any YNZ regulation if they undertake the necessary assessment and determine what replaces it.  Cat 3 still requires an inflated dinghy or a liferaft. Coastal Classic is a Cat 3- race. The minus is important.  The night race to Kawau used to be a Cat4+ race (adding a inflated dinghy or liferaft). 

You could ask your club to remove the requirement for flares and replace them with something else suitable.  Ultimately this is a club level decision.

YNZ have to take the highest most common ground and that's SOLAS - so they require flares.

The fundamental problem is, that dispite all the research and testing over the past 15years there exists no SOLAS approved EVDS and their won't, until they are included in the treaty. 

 

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2 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:

taken me four pages to finally figure out that these are not the bright flares you are looking for... (to paraphase Obi Wan)

adult-60s-psychedelic-hippy-costume-9906996.jpg

To quote a wise Australian Poet, Mick Dundee

You call those colourful flares?

now these are colourful flares

969377697_23419-9906999-1-3-1500.thumb.jpg.8f52b587fde5345a8bb6cfc163db7890.jpg

 

 

Sorry and Yes I was taking the piss when putting wise in the same sentence as Australian.

 

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As most of you know, these electronic flares are now legal in the US - I have one on my boat. It is quite bright and floats. 

No way in heck would I ever hold up a magnesium flare on a pitching boat as it drips molten metal, and I am trying to fix something and/or render assistance at the same time. 

71oUdMt22TL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

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The electronic flares are approved for NZ use for racing / recreation, you still need to carry the smoke flares. 

They were allowed as alternatives a round a couple of years ago. Check the rules for the exact criteria.

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

No way in heck would I ever hold up a magnesium flare on a pitching boat as it drips molten metal,

Either you had a defective flare or have been listening to the 1950's. If a flare did drip anything combustible as you describe it fails Certification and can't be sold as a flare.

 

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On 31/03/2021 at 2:43 AM, erice said:

they mean epirbs

got epirbs broadcasting your lat/long to satellites and you can have a helicopter overhead in as little as 20min

at least according to some motorbike guys who broke a leg in a remote south island valley 

Was with a mate of mine when he broke an arm in a remote South Island Valley... really remote. Took 6h for the heli. 121MHz, though... after that I bought a 406.

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