The Last Time Safety Gear Was Used?

[Fish 0]

Thinking about the evolution of safety equipment and how the historical requirements are not adapting to the modern situation.

 

When was the last time a life raft was used by a boat in the Coastal Classic?

 

I can understand back in the 70's, a life raft would have been a key piece of safety kit. In 2017 communications, location knowledge (gps, ais, epirb) and rescue service response times are such that I can't imagine a scenario where a boat between Auckland and Cape Brett would need to deploy a life raft in anger.

 

Now, to do a CAT 4 race in the inner Hauraki Gulf, I've got to go and renew a bunch of out of date pyrotechnics. The safety gear I think important for that race is a PLB on my person, hand held vhf, fixed vhf and an anchor. I also wear a life jacket with twin crotch straps, hood, light and knife.

 

In the past, due to screw ups, I've used the anchor more than once, the vhf (to be honest I prefer the cell phone, it's easier), and I've used the knife once.

 

Never used the first aid kit, tools including hacksaw etc or buckets, accept I do use those to clean the boat.

 

Is it time to drop the requirements for outdated safety gear where modern equipment as surpassed its benefit.

 

Why do we need a life raft for the Coastal Classic, has one ever been used in anger in that race?

 

Why can't we just go hop on our boat and race around the Gulf and up to the BoI without all this fluff and BS?

[ex TL systems 63]

you can just sail around without any BS just not as an official race entrant, thats 1 reason why i have never bothered with racing

[Clipper 343]

I eas with you until you mentioned tools or first aid kit or buckets. Ive used all those multiple times durng a race, or immediately after pulling out of a race due to damage , to both boat and crew.

 

There is very little i dont want on my boat thats required for cat 3. Some exceptions of course

[harrytom 648]

Hacksaw has always intrigued me,yes can see a use but if you break one blade whose to say the other 12 wont break?pair of bolt cutters would much more handier to cut rigging in such an event,imo.

Flares well are they any use??nephew let a smoke flare off and a vessel went past and waved,some one on shore raised the alarm.

vhf yes cell phone depends on which company as some struggle once outside motuihe.

Frightened man with a bucket can shift more water than a pump.

Life raft?? seems like a waste of time for coastal classic but should it be needed probably glad you had it if things went sour?

I guess a lot of safety gear,bolted down floor boards,etc seem a waste of time but the powers to be are just covering themselves in the unlikely event of death/accident etc who knows what osh etc would come up with. Even though we sign a race declaration that skipper is responsible and does not hold club etc responsible. Changing world with the cotton wool brigade just waiting to jump.

[Vorpal Blade 89]

I had this conversation with an inspector a month or two ago. 

It would be interesting to compare the Cat3 requirements from say 1985 to the requirements now and just see what extra stuff has been added to the list, and what has been dropped. I know one of the requirements was you were not allowed to rely on GPS for navigation and had to carry a lead line for depth sounding, now you have to have 2 GPSs and a proper depth sounder!

 

Has anyone got an old NZYF book from way back then so we can do some comparisons?

[Fish 0]

Specifically I'm interested in an evidence based demonstration of the need for life rafts when racing in the Hauraki Gulf and up to the BoI, inside the Poor Knights, as the Coastal requires.

 

The cost of owning and maintaining a life raft (or hiring) is a barrier to racing for me. My life raft service is out of date, the age of my raft means I probably need a new one.

 

My comment on buckets and hacksaws is just a distraction, they are not a barrier to racing.

 

I'm interested in the evidence based need for rafts in comparison to the situation in say the 1970's

 

Does anyone know of a raft being used in anger in the Hauraki Gulf in the last 10 years?

 

Does anyone carry a raft for cruising the Hauraki Gulf that wouldn't have it for offshore already?

[Ed 143]

A lot go down the inflated dinghy on deck route that would be used for cruising anyway

[Island Time 1,239]

Yeah Ed, that is what I do - even though I own and carry a raft, I don't keep it up to date unless heading offshore. Simply too expensive. The dingy is always inflated and on deck. (Unless using it or occasionally towing it of course!)

[armchairadmiral 411]

Yes....The safety rules have been way OTT  since the 70's introduction of Categorys. The threat was that Govt.was going to administer to yachting safety. So we did it to ourselves which may have been as bad. As noted  by others we too have sailed up and down the coast ever since without the OTT gear .Another potential race entry lost. Note now no parachutes required so that's a start. With a bleeper,2 VHF's, inumerable cellphones (you need both networks on the coast ) some smokeys ,tools, LJ's,food  water and refreshments we are fully equipped IMO. The best safety item is experience and common sense ! The skippers sole and inescapable responsibility    etc etc.........

[Island Time 1,239]

As noted above, there is very little in Cat 3 I would not carry anyway...

[Ed 143]

When was the last time anyone use a paper chart in anger during coastal sailing?

[Clipper 343]

I often prepare small printouts of islands, rocks etc, and an a4 chart of the course, and laminate them all. Easy to look at say, rakino to confirm how close you can go etc.

 

But on Voom i have never opened a full size chart when racing.

[Fish 0]

When was the last time anyone use a paper chart in anger during coastal sailing?

I do use paper charts. We have a chart plotter, but I also have a GPS, which all my waypoints are in. I do have the key waypoints drawn on the paper chart for positional awareness. (old fashioned range and bearing).

The paper chart is handy for showing my 3 yr old where we are. She has her own copy of Kawau to Rangitoto, she takes it in 'her sailing bag'. When we go past a red post or a yellow buoy etc we show her where they are on her chart. She also likes to see where the river, the nice harbour (Maharangi) and the islands (Tiri, Rangitoto etc) are on her chart.

At $20 each I don't think paper charts are a barrier to racing, but I do sympathies if you don't use them, why d you need to carry them.

 

Sounds like I need to investigate getting a new dinghy, being inflatable and small enough to fit on deck. I already have an inflatable, which is big enough to carry the family (so wont fit on deck) and a nice plywood dink, that doesn't comply even though it has reserve bouyancy built in, cause its not a deflatable....

Still not sure why I need one.

 

When was the last time a boat sunk so quickly the crew took to the dinghy?

[ScottiE 174]

I can remember having to use paper charts in a coastal years back on a R830 when we didn't have a plotter.  was a stonking NE and none of the others felt "robust" enough to navigate.  Regardless I was sick as a dog but we were quite close to the coast and I didn't fancy stepping off the boat onto rocks in that weather!  What was a nightmare of a task, all night, would have been a doddle with a plotter.

[Fish 0]

So anyone got any examples anywhere at all in Coastal NZ of crew taking to a liferaft of dinghy because their boat sank so fast they couldn't be picked up beforehand?

 

Boat fires maybe?

 

Or are is this particular requirement of the safety regs now superseded by modern comms and location awareness?

[Clipper 343]

I have no particular issue with dinghy ot raft on a keeboat. Seems dangerous/stupid on an unsinkable cat or tri though. A dinghy on the foredeck going underwater is a big drag and not safe.

 

Luckily those good bastards over at SSANZ have let multis get away without them in our longest 2 handed race (want to say simrad, what is it now? Safety at sea?)

[markm 30]

Closest to needing a raft would have been a couple of multi flips in the last 10 years or so but I'm fairly sure in all those cases people stayed with the upturned hull.

I'd look at it another way though.  IMO, once the wind is peaking over about 50kts or so, things, often exciting and unpredictable start to happen.  There are a couple of examples of broken rudders causing sufficient damage to drive people to rafts, though typically not so fast that a rescue boat wouldn't pick them up first in a coastal event.

Once you're in conditions of peaks over the 50-ish knots then I think a raft starts to be pretty reasonable as a requirement.  Me though, I just don't think a CC or whatever is so important that I need to go out when those sorts of conditions are expected and it's been a whole long time since 50kts has arrived when less than 40 was forecast.

What I can't be convinced on is cat 3 requiring a whole heap of things related to safety when keelers are rolled.  Other than loss of keel, getting rolled just isn't a happening thing in a cat 3 event for the majority of boats.

Did the crew of Chayah go to a raft when she got in trouble off Waiheke or did they go straight to shore?

 

[Island Time 1,239]

Its not possible for Wind alone to roll a keeler - even 100 Knots -  wind can only knock you down. Waves can capsize. Waves that big take a while to generate, and in a CC, if those conditions are beginning, why continue. Stupid.

[ex Elly 197]

Getting rolled may be more likely than you think.

According to the scientific tests a yacht can be rolled when hit side on by a breaking wave of more than 30% the boats length.

Do we get breaking waves of 3m or more from trough to peak in the Hauraki Gulf?

 

The article is here:

Dangerous waves and your boat

http://www.oceannavigator.com/Ocean-Voyager-2011/Dangerous-waves-and-your-boat/

[Island Time 1,239]

It's the breaking crest size that matters, and it has to be 30 percent of the boats waterline, and broadside. What I said is valid IMO. A wave with a 3 meter breaking crest is a big wave. I've never seen one in the Gulf.