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Cayman Islands Registry?


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Interesting discussion re Cat 1...also intriguing given a current YNZ inspector recently put his boat into Cat 1 and is away cruising this season. He went through the process and was extremely grateful he had a second YNZ inspector undertake the Cat 1 check...despite having circa 160,000nms of experience. Personally, I found the Cat 3 inspection really helpful. Specifically, the guidance provided by the inspector which was hard earnt and latterly proved by me personally.

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It all depends on the Inspector. Get a practical one and you should be fine, get a anal one and you could be forced to wate money and carry sh*t which makes the boat more dangerous than it needs to be.

 

The exact same thing applies in commercial with MZN Surveyors, I see it weekly. Some work for the best outcome for the boat, others work for the best outcome to cover their and their masters arses.

 

Like commercial do due diligence and find a Inspector who works with you to try to get you as safe as you can be FOR YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES, not a twat just after some pocket money just ticking boxes.

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Right or wrong? I heard New Cal does not really give a sh#t about Cat1 and for French citizens, even a clearance! Stories of French coming here for a holiday, buying a boat and sailing straight to Noumea? Another thing I heard is that customs (NZ) will still clear you out if you hold fast to your right to sail without a Cat1? Asked Jim Lott once what use is a throw line to a single hander....

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NZ Customs is quite clear that a NZ registered yacht must have a Cat 1 certificate to depart NZ. They are doing this on behalf of Maritime NZ who have set this requirement using their powers under the Marine Transport Act.

Yes there are some items in the Safety Regs that might not fit all instances, but a good inspector will take a pragmatic approach looking to see that you are complying with the intent of the rules. 

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Compulsory rescue insurance ? You have to be kidding. Imagine the insurance requirements.On top of Cat 1which would be a minimum insurance  requirement. As I understand it only NZ citizens require a Cat 1 clearance. Change your domicile and sail away free of NZ requirements ??

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Compulsory rescue insurance ? You have to be kidding. Imagine the insurance requirements.On top of Cat 1which would be a minimum insurance  requirement. As I understand it only NZ citizens require a Cat 1 clearance. Change your domicile and sail away free of NZ requirements ??

Nothing to do with NZ citizens, depends entirely on Country of registration of the vessel. NZ boats have to have cat 1. Others dont.

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How many foreign flagged vessels has nz rescue services had to assist in say the last 5-10 years? Does anyone know this or where to find the data? Or is there so few incidents the data doesn’t exist? The media loves headlines involving sailors in trouble so most incidents make headlines.. how many can you count in recent history?

 

There must be far more foreign cruisers coming in and out of nz than nz registered boats so are they over represented in rescue statistics or is someone trying to fix/prevent a problem that doesn’t exist and making the whole process more expensive, daunting and time consuming than necessary?

 

Does YNZ ever review the cat 1 rules and do they accept submissions?

 

Lots of questions I know but I really am curious.

 

I do think Crazyhorses point re insurance maybe valid. How often would they have to pay out?

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"rescue insurance" is effectively covered in taxes paid by citizens of the member states in the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) with the SOLAS and SAR conventions providing rules which all members are bound to. Furthermore all vessels on the high seas have the obligation to render assistance in emergencies where it is safe to do so.

This issue is often raised, but in fact is effectively no different to SAR for someone stuck on the side of a mountain or a lost tramper.

Consider car accidents, apart from the ambulance ride all the costs of attending to victims are part of the operating budgets of the police, NZTA and anyone else who joins in.

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Does YNZ ever review the cat 1 rules and do they accept submissions?

 

They did and I'm sure if you are the right person they will. But the Regs have suffered some silly 'copy n paste' issues over the last few editions.

 

In the one before last a 90ft pocket super yacht in BV Classification, a 70ft alloy barge in MNZ survey and a 65ft ocean going trawler style power boat in ABS all carried the same anchoring system YNZ wanted to see on my R930. It was ludicrous of the First order. That was due to a lack of knowledge or checking by the YNZ team who did the book.

 

Last edition I caught a cock up before it went to print which would mean not one boat I can think of NZ wide could comply. Again a simple lack of subject knowledge.

 

I have seen YNZ promote specific products rather than being generic, when generic was the easier and cleanest response. It does make one wonder how much influence some people have and if that is being used to gain commercial advantages. I'd like to think none but with some bits and bobs that pop up at times it's hard not to think 'Hmmmmmmm........'

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Take a look at Jersey (Channel islands), it's very cheap and easy, plus it's open to any commonwealth citizen (including Kiwis) and also to EU citizens I think. You can fly either a Jersey flag (red ensign with lions on it) or a British red ensign and you get all the protection of British Navy etc. All you need is a tonnage measurement certificate which most UK surveyors can give you. When we got ours Curly Hayter was the licensed surveyor to do it in NZ, he may be retired now but the cost of measurement was minimal.

 

Big bonus is you pay only once and your certificate then lasts a full ten years, no renewal, no admin fees etc. etc.

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Take a look at Jersey (Channel islands), it's very cheap and easy, plus it's open to any commonwealth citizen (including Kiwis) and also to EU citizens I think. You can fly either a Jersey flag (red ensign with lions on it) or a British red ensign and you get all the protection of British Navy etc. All you need is a tonnage measurement certificate which most UK surveyors can give you. When we got ours Curly Hayter was the licensed surveyor to do it in NZ, he may be retired now but the cost of measurement was minimal.

 

Big bonus is you pay only once and your certificate then lasts a full ten years, no renewal, no admin fees etc. etc.

That looks a really good way to go. Their list of approved surveyors includes the IIMS, so I guess if you can find an IIMS surveyor in NZ they can do it.

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That looks a really good way to go. Their list of approved surveyors includes the IIMS, so I guess if you can find an IIMS surveyor in NZ they can do it.

 

You need a lot more than just a tonnage cert.  I know as I tried to register with Jersey last year.

You will need Bill of Sale not only from the person you purchased boat off, but the person previous to that too. 

I could not produce the required bills of sale, so they would not register.

All up, including the cost of registration plus the tonnage survey - it will cost about same as NZ cat 1, but without all the extra stuff you need to get a cat 1 cert in NZ.

I then tried Dutch, but their basic certification is for EU waters only, and useless worldwide.  They do have a worldwide cert, but far too complex and costly.

I am now investigating Malaysia / Lang Kawi for registration.

I would really like to register with NZ - but the five year repay full amount to get renewed, plus the silly rules that someone onboard has had to have done an "ocean passage" - which aint gonna work for me as a single-hander - have put me off NZ reg. 

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Apparently the cost issue of NZ rego is under revue, and is projected to be reduced, whether it is down to the equivalent of the UK SSR I would doubt, though that is where it should be. Don't forget the Rena, someone has to pay!!

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Take a look at Jersey (Channel islands), it's very cheap and easy, plus it's open to any commonwealth citizen (including Kiwis) and also to EU citizens I think. You can fly either a Jersey flag (red ensign with lions on it) or a British red ensign and you get all the protection of British Navy etc. All you need is a tonnage measurement certificate which most UK surveyors can give you. When we got ours Curly Hayter was the licensed surveyor to do it in NZ, he may be retired now but the cost of measurement was minimal.

 

Big bonus is you pay only once and your certificate then lasts a full ten years, no renewal, no admin fees etc. etc.

 

 

That looks a really good way to go. Their list of approved surveyors includes the IIMS, so I guess if you can find an IIMS surveyor in NZ they can do it.

 

 

Ok now we're back on track I'll jump back in :)

 

I looked into the Transocean thing, had a very nice chat with both Rita in Germany and the local TO club guy here in Switzerland, but unfortunately we'll still need a flag registry. You can use the TO thing to clear in and out, but you still need a flag ... 

 

 

I'll look in to Channel islands, but I think I already scratched it for some reason... lemmie see. 

 

I don't mind meeting most of the Cat 1 requirements, but the ocean is not a one-size-fits-all place... ANyway, this is not really about Cat1 or no Cat1.

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The Jersey registration looks the best suggested so far, but only if the tonnage certificate can be done easily, I imagine the builder could get it done without fuss. Bigger issue could be the tax and duty issues. Then again it's going to be the same for any flag unless you are taxed in EU isn't it?

 

Interesting post re NZ reg fees coming down. If it dropped to UK SSR rates that would be sensible. Massive drop from where they are now though so I can't see it.

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Well Dr Watson, for me a lot of it IS about Cat 1 or not Cat 1.

 

I don't mind the epirb or life raft requirements, but some of the other rules are a "one size fits all" nature and have just not been thought through well enough.

 

I've already mentioned the requirement that someone on board has done an ocean passage - that aint gonna work for me as a single-hander, and no, I don't want to go to a passage on someone elses boat first - I frankly, don't want to put my safety into someone elses hands.  I am preparing my boat as best I can for the worst possible case scenarios - as much as one can anyway,y as nature is nature.  And I am not going sailing on someone else's boat offshore whom I have had no hand in setting boat up, just so some cat 1 inspector can tick a box.

 

Looking further through cat 1 rigging rules - its all rules for Bermudian boats.  My boat is rigged as Chinese lug rig, often called 'junk rig'.  How can you take seriously a set of rules that assume everyone is going to rig their boat Bermudan style?

 

Then there is the rule that says bilge pump water cannot be pumped into the cockpit.  But hold on - I have removed all through holes below waterline on my boat including the cockpit drains - instead, i have two tubes glassed in and massively strong, that exit out the stern above the waterline.  I will also have bungs for them too, of course.  
I do NOT want to put another hole in my hull just so I can meet this not very well thought out 'rule' that bilge water can't be pumped out into the cockpit. My cockpit I should add - has had all the lockers glassed in - it is completely watertight and safer than probably 99% of boats that sail offshore , I also have no sliding hatch or drop-boards, instead I have built a companion way entrance secured by a Ocean Hatch, which when shut makes my companionway 100% waterproof - yet, my cockpit and bilge pump set up would fail the Cat 1 test despite being as safe and water-tight a cockpit area as one can reasonably make - and safer than 99% of boats that sail offshore from NZ.

 

So, for me Cat 1 requirements would make my boat (in the above instances) LESS SAFE in my opinion - but I sure as heck am not going to change the watertight nature of my cockpit, cockpit drains, or companionway entrance and make my boat less safe, just so some guy with a clipboard can tick a few boxes - hence my strong desire to register my yacht elsewhere.

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