Jump to content

Something sensible, Hauraki Gulf, east North NZ, while we save for Cat?


Recommended Posts

We are saving to buy a performance cat, a Seawind 1160 lite to be exact, but cats arent cheap in newish state.

So in the mean time we just want something sensible for the gulf and up and down the top East of north Island between White Island and possibly Three Kings etc, but mostly the gulf, to Coromandel up to GBI.

 

Now Ive sailed on everything from 100ft to trailer sailers.

 

But I want something for $50k that wont be a pile of crap I need to spend another $25k on. I also want something not motor sailer but with all the comforts of a motor sailer. 

Im wondering how small I should consider not how big I can afford as the bigger I go the more likely Im buying something well used for the money. 

Im thinking something close as I can to 40ft, non tiller steer, easy access to engine, something with a solid keel so we dont list too much when under way, but something not so heavy like a lot of Bavarias that seem to need to motor a lot on lighter winds. I know, big asks.

Any advice on that price range for some bluewater coastal sailing monohull?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Take your pick on any mid to late 80’s kiwi cruiser in the 35-40ft range for that price...

 

Not sure why you wouldn’t go for a tiller on a 40ft boat but that’s a personal thing.

 

All keels are solid, all boats heel. Some more than others granted but you get used to heel quickly.

 

Plenty of Cavs, Raven 31’s etc on TM. Choose one you like, get a survey and buy it.

 

It’s all a compromise with boats. Light,fast,roomy, comfortable you won’t get it all. Pick what matters most.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheel steering cuts your options down for that price range. How many crew or kids are going to be on board or is it just you and the wife. If you push the price up a bit, a Davidson 35 or Lotus 10.6 would be worth looking at but not many with wheel steering.

Plenty of 30fters in that price range but not many with a wheel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't there a law of physics that states that these two events are mutually exclusive?:

1) I want to save money,

2) I want to buy a boat.

 

To answer the question, how small can you go, you need to say what you want to use the boat for, and how many people will use it?

Just a couple, solo, a family with kids, retired couple taking friends out, etc, and

Day trips, weekending, 3 week summer cruise, or extended live aboard cruising?

Size also impacts on passage times and acceptable weather, etc, which is based on how you want to use it.

 

I would think that if you want a small boat that is cheap to buy, doesn't need any work on it, is stiff, and also has a wheel will really limit your options. There are many more boats around that are small, cheap, may not need too much maintenance, but requiring a wheel also would exclude maybe 80% of options that meet the other requirements.

 

Personally, I'd probably look at a Townson 32 or similar, which is ideal for a couple coastal cruising (and stiff, perfectly suitable for offshore, etc).

 

There are several Pacific 38's around for just over the $50k mark, they have a wheel, are stiff, but they are all old (all circa 1975). One or two have been substantially done up. Weather or not they meet your definition of 'not needing any work' may come down to how fussy you are. Otherwise they sound like they fit your requirements. No idea about resale on a boat that old though...

 

Edit, Sorry, my mistake - Pacific 38's have a tiller - which kind of proves my first point...

There are several asking between $50k and $60k, some are substantially better than others, so with the usual pre- purchase negotiation you could meet your $50k budget for a good stiff cruising boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I'd probably look at a Townson 32 ...perfectly suitable for offshore, etc).

 

Great coastal boats from all accounts, but there has been some debate on the last point... http://crew.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic/15043-sailor-in-liferaft-off-norfolk/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all.

Tiller steer is just personal preference of the Mrs, the friggin thing is on auto pilot a lot of the time anyway. Although some yachts will get you a lot more wet in a tiller steer than a Wheel further aft.

So something mid 80s, get it surveyed, purchase?

I miss my uncle being here, diesel/marine mechanic. Old engines need the eye of the tiger to get them reliable imo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think you may find a lot of the older boats have been repowered. I think the Cav 39 is wheel steered, but finding a good one may now be difficult. 

I repowered 3 years ago and 3 other Lotus 9.2s also repowered around the same time, and that was just at Pine Harbour.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all.

 

Tiller steer is just personal preference of the Mrs, the friggin thing is on auto pilot a lot of the time anyway. Although some yachts will get you a lot more wet in a tiller steer than a Wheel further aft.

 

So something mid 80s, get it surveyed, purchase?

 

I miss my uncle being here, diesel/marine mechanic. Old engines need the eye of the tiger to get them reliable imo.

Best two ways of checking and engine is ask the owner if he can run it up to full throttle for 10 mins

If it doesn’t sound like an outhouse door it a cyclone and there’s not soot all over the stern then it’s worth spending money on a mechanical assessment, get the agent for the brand not the owners guy that’s a mate of a mate.

The owner will know if it’s on the way out and won’t run it up to full noise, however Diesel engines are designed to do this if they are healthy

 

As for designs your going to really struggle to get something under 40’ that’s wheel steer and 50k

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jon and Chariot.

I will try to find a Cavalier. 

I really like retractable Marlin boards, like on the Bavaria 46.

Jon re the engine, I totally agree. A lot of noobs to power boat inboards try to run them too light to save fuel but dont realise how much build up that it is creating. Im pretty good at servicing my own outboards and use to service my merc cruiser, so I should be able to tell if its buggered. The issue is sometimes people skimp on replacing parts that last a long time, but are critical. This is my biggest fear. Obviously service paper work will help.

If we have to go up a bit in cost I dont mind as long as we are getting a bargain to negate risk of major resale loss as its money that goes towards the Cat which we are considering sailing through the Panama to sale the Bahamas etc. But this given the cost of newish Cat and the need to have solid investments to live off while away, means we are likely looking at 10-15 years before we can take this major break and semi retire. By then I will be mid to late 50s which worries me as I have back issues. So I need a certain quality of bunk for my back, as long as I keep my spine straight doing work I am usually fine. The Mrs is one strong little thing though, she is solid muscle in the right places. Makes an excellent deck hand lol.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cavalier does indeed look like a beauty from the past. One I cant afford but love the internal layout of is the spencer 43.

I like to game fish and want to do so while sailing as 6-10knots is a perfect speed for most game species. I also want to jig for kingies etc out at places like Mayor Island, along with freediving/spearfishing.

 

So the only thing I see missing is a swim platform/marlin board. Would it be hard to fit on purpose built for landing game fishing and poissbly jigging from, the only issue there is not getting sucked over board. So would like to fight the fish from inside to give my body something to press against (knees) while I have the rod in a gimbal, but some how have a swim platform I can drop once I have the fish to the surface?

Link to post
Share on other sites

6-10 knots in a 50k boat that’s roomy and has wheel steering.... um not likely!

 

 

You can’t have everything!

 

Tillers are dryer than a wheel usually too as you can drive from the gunnel (or anywhere in the cockpit).

 

Open transoms are good for fishing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Its amazing you dont really see a lot of age difference unless you double your money. In some ways I wonder if I am better off buying a good used hull and having it refurbishing the interior (why was purple so trendy in the 80s eeeek), re built engine, new sails if needed, basically buying one of the recommended hulls at a good price and putting a bit of money into it. Im also not a huge fan of the look of wood in a boat, I know its traditional, but I much prefer the look of lighter coloured laminates used in modern Cats etc. 

 

What is the minimum size I should be considering for a coastal blue water sailer, ie up to 3 kings, out to GBI? Is the Lotus 10.6 too small? I like its layout and its the smallest yacht with a wheel helm. I could easily add a swim platform but the MK2 I like has a built in boarding platform which looks to be plenty accessible to fish to haul aboard. 35ft should be sweet for the kinds of voyages I plan on right?

Im pretty competent in my sailing ability, but nothing beats length when it comes to an unexpected 40 knots which "can" spring up out of nowhere, Ive seen it happen plenty of times on both sail boats and game fishing power boats.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Loads of lotus 10.6s have been to the pacific islands etc so no probs there.

 

As some above have said you may need to weigh up your expectations as you might have to trade some against others. A decent 40 footer for 50k in good nick that performs reasonably is unlikely in my opinion. If you're prepared to sacrifice performance and get something like the p38 mentioned above then perhaps you might.

 

If 50k is the budget you're probably more likely to find a well looked after one not needing a pile of work if looking at 10ish meter boats like the lotus 10.6, Beale 33, wright 10, Farr 1020, townson 34 etc. Examples of all of these have been offshore so are quite capable of going anywhere around coastal NZ with some planning. Also as said above, if you are determined to have a wheel you are really limiting your choices in this price (and size) range.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What about something like this? https://www.trademe.co.nz/2237339979

Doesn't quite have the interior volume of a lotus 10.6 but looks pretty well sorted in terms of your requirements (except for the wheel).

That one has a ship's bulb added to the bow, for some very strange and random reason. Fairly sure the stern has been extended also. In one photo it just doesn't look right, like a bad nose job, but on the arse. Other than those two aspects, its a perfectly legit prospect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s worth rethinking and moving past the whole wheel thing for your needs.

 

1. A wheel takes cockpit space where you will spend a lot of your time

 

2. Tillers are nicer to feel your boat. They make it easy to fit affordable self steering, including the ability to drive with bungies or sheet to tiller.

 

3. Practically no performance 35ft yacht has a wheel.

 

4. In the 30-40 ft range the advantages of tillers pretty much annihilate the advantages of a wheel without the hassles of mechanical linkages.

 

Deal with your wheel envy and you have a tonne of great options available.

 

The smaller wheel steered boats i’ve Looked at have tended to be poor retro fit jobs.

 

Tillers you have boats by Wright, Young, the Cavs, Ravens etc, Townsend, Stewart’s etc.

 

My 35ft Tiller steered boat is planning on going Way North and if I sold it today would be close to your price range ( I won’t sell her for twice that though as I have way to much sweat capital and $$$ in her now for that). That’s boats!

Link to post
Share on other sites

That one has a ship's bulb added to the bow, for some very strange and random reason. Fairly sure the stern has been extended also. In one photo it just doesn't look right, like a bad nose job, but on the arse. Other than those two aspects, its a perfectly legit prospect.

Yeah stern has also been extended. Hard to imagine that the bow bulb couldn't be removed pretty easily though if it bothered you.

 

Completely agree with tazzy devil's comments above re the wheel. I have a wheel on my 39 footer and don't consider it a plus. In my case the wheel takes up space that a tiller wouldn't (and my 39 footer has a pretty big cockpit). The boat is great in other ways but I don't love the wheel.

 

Another pro tiller point is for short handed sailing a tiller tends to mean you're a bit further forward in the cockpit so it's easier to reach other things (halyards, sheets etc) than if you're stuck behind a wheel at the back of the cockpit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheel is just personal preference, as its a cruiser, feel is not so important to her. I get why some prefer tillers, it also brings us back to how we learnt to sail dinghies as kids, which is part of feel. But its not on the plans and Im ok with missing out on the other boats and limiting my options.

I REALLY like the look of the Lotus Mk2, Ive seen a couple done up and they scrub up nicely. 35 feet to the Islands would be a challenge, not one I am scared of. 

Ive also noticed a lot of large cabin sloops with wheel houses inside, that might be up her ally. Technically arent most yachts sloops, from wiki "sloop is a sailing boat with a single mast typically meaning one headsail in front of the mast, and one mainsail aft of (behind) the mast"

 

I think getting use to something like the Lotus will be just a confidence thing for the lady to go to the islands. I would not go without modern safety gear and electronics fitted either. 

A big issue for me is, I was a 12ft centre console RIB for spearfishing and exploring once we have moored at set location. Especially GBI where ive never had a bad day spearing. 12ft centre console just wouldnt be possible on the bow would it? The stern it would block any game fishing I had planned to do when under way. I prefer fiberglass, I had a Caribe 14 prior and they use large pontoons, 50cm. In fact I use to take that out from Gulf Harbour and cover most of the Gulf including LB with gas, but 2 x 25l yamaha totes are made to fit between the stern seats, really good system, had a tiller gear shift 3cyl yamaha 40 repropped and foiled for hole shot and I could fully load the dinghy with people and gear and it was always immediate hole shot. But my expectations on size and using ally hull for weight are realistic given a 35ft  yacht is not going to handle a heavy 14ft caribe and large 40hp. 

So I am think 12ft ally hull and 18hp Tohatsu 2 stroke which is the same weight as a yammy 15hp. Given its mostly just myself and the Mrs, that is plenty, in fact I could even drop to a 9.8 tohatsu which is the weight of an 8hp. 10ft is too small, 12 ft in ally would be limited to fairly low winds and swell around the Islands. Once at location I would likely tow the dinghy if moving location locally until ready for voyage back. 

Thanks everyone for the input. I was going to wait until we could afford the Cat and just keep power boating, but I miss being out there with a few lures being towed behind, making for really amazing holidays and big fish without the cost of a big engine off shore fly-bridge cruiser. maybe I am alone in the romantic idea of letting the wind do the work in trolling lures :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dinghy with a centre console will be quite a hassle to store on board... Maybe on transom davits but then it's in the way of your fishing. And you'll struggle to fit a 12 foot dinghy of the foredeck of a lotus 10.6. we carry a 2.8m (9ft?) Dinghy on the foredeck of the 39 footer and it's a squeeze.

 

Sounds a bit like your wish list is more in line with a $150k boat than a $50k one... Like I said earlier might have to weigh up your requirements and trade them off against each other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...