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36 minutes ago, twisty said:

It's interesting that on this site there is a lot of sympathy for cruisers from the islands. On SA I don't see much sympathy for them.

That is a good example, SA being Merican and all. What happens if you try entering the US illegally? They've been permanently confiscating your children, locking them in wire cages and deporting the adults back to what they were escaping from. Never mind your boat.

I am genuinely interested in these German's situation though. Bernard Moitissuer sailed from Tahiti to Europe. If you are stuck in Tahiti, need to get back to your own country, and want to take your boat with you, it has been done before...

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Realistically few if any of these boats/crew are up to a non stop passage from Tahiti to Europe via the Horn. That would be carnage. Most of them wouldn't have the range to sail back to Panama.  Can't  go north, can't go south,  cant stay put. 

What would you have done?

I think the next thing to happen will be a boat arriving and bypassing customs. 

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2 hours ago, Fish said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they also have free round the world air tickets. You don't normally have to pay cash to be deported do you? Being returned free of charge to your home country from the other side of the world doesn't sound that bad to me.

While they won't pay up front, they'll end up with the liability. NZ Govt may or may not have the ability recover this via various international treaties. 

One thing for certain, until that debt is settled, they won't even be considered for an NZ visa. And even after it is paid there's still no guarantee.

Their boat, if seized, will ultimately be sold, this would offset their deportation costs, any residual will be forfeit.

So not exactly 'free', but none the less it's an effective way to liquidate an asset if your intention was to spend every cent of it on airfares anyway. 

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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

Realistically few if any of these boats/crew are up to a non stop passage from Tahiti to Europe via the Horn. That would be carnage. Most of them wouldn't have the range to sail back to Panama.  Can't  go north, can't go south,  cant stay put. 

What would you have done?

I think the next thing to happen will be a boat arriving and bypassing customs. 

I'd probably tell customs I'm entering NZ and come on in, on the basis you'd be treated fairly reasonably, and your human rights would be upheld I.e. not shot at, not detained in disease ridden crowded detention centres, and there is a reasonable chance of using the legal system to "get off", compared to a lot of other places.

I dont really have a problem with these duetch turning up. The bit I am surprised about is people  complaining when  they get deported, I.e. safely returned to their home country. 

I dont think that us a bad outcome... could be locked in a Panamanian jail with the drug dealers and desperados or nicely treated and sent ho e from NZ.

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5 hours ago, twisty said:

It's interesting that on this site there is a lot of sympathy for cruisers from the islands. On SA I don't see much sympathy for them.

Most there are not cruisers, and dont understand offshore cruising or ocean voyaging in average boats...

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36 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Most there are not cruisers, and dont understand offshore cruising or ocean voyaging in average boats...

Most there think it is perfectly normal to pull a gun on anyone with a funny ascent...

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9 hours ago, twisty said:

It's interesting that on this site there is a lot of sympathy for cruisers from the islands. On SA I don't see much sympathy for them.

From what I've seen and heard I have to totally agree with you, Crew.org does seem to be more an exception than the rule.

 

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6 hours ago, Black Panther said:

Realistically few if any of these boats/crew are up to a non stop passage from Tahiti to Europe via the Horn. That would be carnage. Most of them wouldn't have the range to sail back to Panama.  Can't  go north, can't go south,  cant stay put. 

What would you have done?

I think the next thing to happen will be a boat arriving and bypassing customs. 

I don't see how they would be 'stuck' in Tahiti? With a Carte de Seyjour, they could easily sail to Nuka Hiva or sail to the eastern Tuamotu for hurricane season, or even Hawaii to the north.

The issue (in the case of New Zealand) is not about safety and quarantine. It is about fairness to everyone. There are thousands of people who want to enter New Zealand. Some of them held valid entry visas, some are actually family (foreign wives and husbands) of kiwi citizens who are refused entry. It would seem unjust to allow a foreigner in only because they arrived by boat. As my shipmate has said....Allot of the complaints seem like calling Waaa! All these boats have the opportunity to Sail north or East out of the cyclone zone. In this case the Germans had been in Taiohae Bay. This is an excellent place to live out the cyclone season. I lived there aboard my sailboat for 10 months. The whiners are the people who are self centered and don’t want to be flexible. I’m not where I want to be right now and I sure as hell am not going to sail forth and push myself through borders. There seems to be two camps emerging. 1. Those who respect other countries’ laws and cultures and 2. Those who want to do whatever serves them.

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I can see boats being stuck in that area. Can't go to Hawaii at this time of year, its their cyclone season, and unless you are a US citizen or have a valid B1/B2 visa (for which you have to be in your own country to apply, and may have to have an interview) .

Although Cyclones are rare in Tahiti, or any part of French Polynesia, they do happen. (Nov-March) Going north at this time of year is not a great idea either, but can be done in 6-8 weeks if you are lucky. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Although Cyclones are rare in Tahiti, or any part of French Polynesia, they do happen. 

 

The Germans were on Nuka-Hiva, chances of a hurricane there are nil. It's more likely to see allot more wind trying to get to New Zealand!

And the Eastern Tuamotu are almost nearly as hurricane free. You can get hull insurance in both places during hurricane season. The actuary tables on this sort of thing bear out the conclusion that these areas of FP are as safe places to be.

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3 hours ago, 2flit said:

I don't see how they would be 'stuck' in Tahiti? With a Carte de Seyjour, they could easily sail to Nuka Hiva or sail to the eastern Tuamotu for hurricane season, or even Hawaii to the north.

All one jurisdiction.  If their time was up they have to leave 

The issue (in the case of New Zealand) is not about safety and quarantine. It is about fairness to everyone. There are thousands of people who want to enter New Zealand. Some of them held valid entry visas, some are actually family (foreign wives and husbands) of kiwi citizens who are refused entry. It would seem unjust to allow a foreigner in only because they arrived by boat. As my shipmate has said....Allot of the complaints seem like calling Waaa! All these boats have the opportunity to Sail north or East out of the cyclone zone.

No, wrong. North isxinto the northern hemisphere hurricane zone, that season still hasn't ended . And if they went north what country? Canada closed. USA technically open but you would need a B1B2 visa which is not always possible and can take years. In fact I think you have to appear at a us consular office in person- is there one in French Polynesia?.

East is back to Panama which would be out of range for most boats.

In this case the Germans had been in Taiohae Bay. This is an excellent place to live out the cyclone season.

If their visas hadnt expired 

 

I lived there aboard my sailboat for 10 months. The whiners are the people who are self centered and don’t want to be flexible.

Have you met them?

 

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The official report mentioned that the Germans were in "unfortunate circumstances". So they been kicked out of NZ, may never be allowed to return, and had their boat confiscated, probably to be sold by customs, and they may receive none of the proceeds.  Seems pretty harsh to me.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Black Panther said:

 

Yes, The USA has a consulate in Papeete that is open. (This is actually where the Germans left from)

Sorry but departing north from Tahiti is a recommended time..... October-December Tahiti to Hawaii is a recommended time in "World Cruising Routes"

 

 

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2 hours ago, ex Elly said:

The official report mentioned that the Germans were in "unfortunate circumstances". So they been kicked out of NZ, may never be allowed to return, and had their boat confiscated, probably to be sold by customs, and they may receive none of the proceeds.  Seems pretty harsh to me.

 

 

The key word there is may. There are very few actual details associated with this story. It is not entirely clear what happened and what is going on now.

The previous statement from the govt stated cruisers risked having their boats confiscated. This is substantially different to shall or will

I don't get the impression this boat just turned up cause they felt like it. It sounds like they had no other options, or getting deported from NZ is the best of a bunch of bad options. And I do agree that if they were in "unfortunate circumstances" getting your boat confiscated would be very harsh.

But I would like to know some actual details. I wouldn't be surprised if the boat is detained for a long time, they have to jump through lots of legal hoops and muck around for 12 or 24 months, and they either get it back or are allowed to sell it privately, or something. I'd far prefer to be dealing with an NZ bureaucracy / justice system on this than the US Coast Guard, or some quality Central American country, or even the French to be honest.

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