Fogg 427 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 If you look at ‘latest listings’ of keelers on TM there has been a surge of cheaper (sub $100k) listings last few weeks and some of them are well below that eg in the $10-25k range. What’s happening at this end of the market? Are these owners selling to upgrade? Or cashing in because of hard times? I know that in the $250-400k price range late model good condition production boats are flying off the shelves and there’s an acute shortage of inventory. Mainly being bought by well-funded upgrading buyers plus newbies to boating who know they won’t be spending large on expensive foreign holidays next few years. Enabled by access to cheaper money. And the top end of the market $500k+ it seems to be as slow as ever. Any thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Aleana said: And the top end of the market $500k+ it seems to be as slow as ever. Any thoughts? my insurance broker said there have been alot of new motor boats sold since L4, most in the 7 figure territory Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, marinheiro said: my insurance broker said there have been alot of new motor boats sold since L4, most in the 7 figure territory Yes there are some new boats coming into NZ with some big sums being spent on new or imported boats rather than buying existing NZ stock. And the prospect of virtually no cruisers arriving, stopping & selling up in NZ this season means that’s another source of supply switched off. But one of the big pressure points is berths - there are almost no 15m berths available in Auckland with some new boats being forced to head north. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raz88 96 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 20 hours ago, Aleana said: If you look at ‘latest listings’ of keelers on TM there has been a surge of cheaper (sub $100k) listings last few weeks and some of them are well below that eg in the $10-25k range. I've been watching trademe pretty closely. I wouldn't say there's been a "surge" of listings. New listings across the board have been very low for some months. Yes there have been an increase in listings in the cheaper price range lately (although quite a lot of these are relist/renewals that were actually already there), but starting from a very low base. and as pointed out above, practically nothing in the more expensive end. Total stock of keelers on trademe is mid 400s, which is lower than I can remember it being. And of those there are a bunch of duplicates, listed with multiple brokers etc. And others that are already sold or under offer and just waiting for the listing to expire. Perhaps people are holding on to their boats as they plan on using them over summer instead of taking an overseas holiday? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Aleana I heard that the Riviera dealers say they could sell as many large models as they could get berths so perhaps it is a blessing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, darkside said: Aleana I heard that the Riviera dealers say they could sell as many large models as they could get berths so perhaps it is a blessing? Haha! My retirement dream is to put together a consortium to build a sustainable marina somewhere in the Auckland region - and it would be for sailing boats only... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dtwo 157 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Aleana said: Haha! My retirement dream is to put together a consortium to build a sustainable marina somewhere in the Auckland region - and it would be for sailing boats only... It would be nice to hear of a sustainable marina in Auckland where Rivieras could get in to but were never seen or heard from again.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 399 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 We try quite successfully to keep them out of the Wairau Cove paradise Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Dtwo said: It would be nice to hear of a sustainable marina in Auckland where Rivieras could get in to but were never seen or heard from again.... Yes that could be a whole new thread - things that you could recycle Rivieras into. And don’t forget you’ve got to melt down the gold medallions & chains... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Isn't Sandspit a club marina? It was initiated by the Club there, exactly what happened with the commercial aspects I'm not aware of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TazzyDevil 9 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Tamure said: I would be a massive supporter of a sailors marina, I believe that part of westhaven should be run in the interests of the average club sailor, obviously its a post referendum fully loaded pipe dream because its never going to happen but if you're a club member and have a smaller boat up to say 10-12m you get a club rate- say 20% off? The club membership would go through the roof! Everyone wins!!! We have a marina trust up here which keeps everything honest and affordable. Seems trailerable is the way racing is going up here rather than keelers, maybe the same in Auckland. As for boat sales, mine is for sale (has been for a wee while) and working with a few prospective buyers but none willing to push play until Covid recovery certainity, which seems to be the go in the low-mid priced racer market at present from what I hear. The tupperware cruisers are going quite cheap (45-50ft bene's for 150-250k mark) as owners have long since bailed out with their boat on the hard. As always in a reccession I guess, if you have cash you are good to go and @2.5% not worth keeping it in the bank. If you are getting started and need 60-80k for a family cruiser-racer you may not be able to prioritise that spending right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Fish said: Isn't Sandspit a club marina? It was initiated by the Club there, exactly what happened with the commercial aspects I'm not aware of. Sandspit was built under the club umbrella, however is at arms length to the club as a separate Incorporated Society controlled by the berth holders. The demand for berths has seen values go thru the roof Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Tamure said: I would be a massive supporter of a sailors marina, I believe that part of westhaven should be run in the interests of the average club sailor, obviously its a post referendum fully loaded pipe dream because its never going to happen but if you're a club member and have a smaller boat up to say 10-12m you get a club rate- say 20% off? The club membership would go through the roof! Everyone wins!!! Problem is someone has to pay. Obviously an existing marina such as Westhaven is a very different prospect to developing a new one. I had a look at my records for Sandspit, in 2014 the price for a 12m berth was around $120k (and that was at cost), and we could not sell many. Most were reconfigured as 14m. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I'd say 95% of the cost of a new marina is successfully obtaining a resource consent. And there is substantial risk there that you will sink millions with no return. Once you have an RC, the construction part is a piece of piss. You'll have funders / backers / signed contracts for berths up the wazzoo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 50 minutes ago, Fish said: I'd say 95% of the cost of a new marina is successfully obtaining a resource consent. And there is substantial risk there that you will sink millions with no return. Once you have an RC, the construction part is a piece of piss. You'll have funders / backers / signed contracts for berths up the wazzoo. I think you mean 95% of the risk. The design and consenting cost at Sandspit was around 25% of the total build price, but it took about 7 yrs to obtain all the consents. Sandspit's consenting was bankrolled by a group of club members funding the process, with all our money at risk. Cost alot more than initially envisaged The other big issue with a new marina is if there is dredging involved, where does that get disposed these days? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,586 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Is sandpit filling up with mud as some predicted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Black Panther said: Is sandpit filling up with mud as some predicted? No. And the basic problem there is it was "an esteemed marine biologist" who made those predictions, unfortunately he did not know the first thing about basic fluid dynamics. You needed an engineer to comment on the silting, not a marine biologist. Its a bit like getting a lawyer to build you a house. They sound flash and knowledgeable, just have no idea which end to hold the hammer. I can give you a run down on the basic first years physics mistake Mr marine biologist made, if you are interested. But it's a bit of thread drift. I think at the time it served its purpose to get all the marina opponents frothing at the mouth. Like fake news, it doesn't really matter now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dutyfree 170 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I heard about 100 on the waiting list for the 14m plus berths at Westhaven. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, dutyfree said: I heard about 100 on the waiting list for the 14m plus berths at Westhaven. Are Westhaven selling licences for the new berths or still just proposing rentals? I had heard they were rethinking this as Westhaven has been transferred back to Council in some financial sleight of hand, Council is basically broke (thanks to CRL) and they need to find the money from somewhere to fund the extension. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dutyfree 170 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Not sure, I will ask my friend who was trying to get one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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