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Drop In Lithiums


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34 minutes ago, wheels said:

I had provided a photo of a car on fire on the road between here and Nelson in the forum that no longer exists unfortunately. I will see if I can find the original and post it again. People fired that many fire extinguishers into it, yet it burned away unempeded. The car was nothing more than ashes and 4 shock struts sticking up.
How about the Cars onboard that Delivery Vessel. All $450 milion of them that are now with Ship at bottom of sea.
Boeing 787's had huge problems with the first lot of batteries on their aircraft. You only have to do a google of Aircraft and batteries fires to find all the stories on that.
Tesla has put a lot or work into making the banks safer. But not all Car or batteries are made by Tesla.

But the point is Wheels, NONE of those batts were LifePo4.

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1 hour ago, wheels said:

sigh...I'm not keeping up with the new tech and information as well as I used to. Been too busy on other things and getting too old.

Hah! I resemble that remark! Amazing how quickly the years pile on.... :-(

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10 hours ago, wheels said:

I had provided a photo of a car on fire on the road between here and Nelson in the forum that no longer exists unfortunately. I will see if I can find the original and post it again. People fired that many fire extinguishers into it, yet it burned away unempeded. The car was nothing more than ashes and 4 shock struts sticking up.
How about the Cars onboard that Delivery Vessel. All $450 milion of them that are now with Ship at bottom of sea.
Boeing 787's had huge problems with the first lot of batteries on their aircraft. You only have to do a google of Aircraft and batteries fires to find all the stories on that.
Tesla has put a lot or work into making the banks safer. But not all Car or batteries are made by Tesla.

but none of those were LifePo4 batteries...

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8 hours ago, Winter said:

but none of those were LifePo4 batteries...

Yeah yeah, don't rub it in ;-)
My error really came about from not being part of the whole thread. I made a couple of posts and simply had in  my mind we were discussing Lithium ion Batteries and I then made the comment. Not wrong in my comment, but I wasn't on the same page of where the discussion had evolved to we could say.
Hey, it's a good excuse anyway. :-)

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16 hours ago, Island Time said:

Hah! I resemble that remark! Amazing how quickly the years pile on.... :-(

Yeah it's the big six oh this Saturday. Mind and Body went off in two different directions. Still think i'm 25, but body likes to remind me very quickly that isn't correct.

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On 26/01/2022 at 9:39 AM, CarpeDiem said:

On a side, but related note, anyone thinking about Li batteries, (or an electric car), should think about pressing the GO button very soon.

Raw Lithium has gone up 500% in the last 12 months, it's not going to be coming down, this manufacturing cost is going to be hitting the battery market shortly.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium

 

hi CD, blimey you seem to be very knowledgeable on this Lithium battery gig, if you don't mind offering an opinion I'm doing a campervan fitout and intending to use Lithium , I'm using Half Moon Bay Electrical for supplying the entire  system and I'm sure they know what they are doing but I would appreciate a second opinion . Below is the component list and we are awaiting a 330AH victron battery which is still on a ship somewhere. With the 12/3000 inverter we intend to power an induction cooker , 800w kettle and 800w microwave but never all at once . There will be 2 x 220 W solar panels wired in series on the roof. 

Nothing about this system is cheap !! the battery alone is north of 5K 

Since I'm sinning by talking campervans on Crew.org I'll PM you for contact and I'm happy to pay for a consult.

 

 

image.png.bcf53cd8148c233bb145ba8ed114f7fa.png

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15 hours ago, Island Time said:

Happy Birthday! My turn for 60 in 4 months....

I, m 63 and feel younger, even my mates say I don't look a day over 90

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But I'm getting gazumped this year, a few days after my birthday my mum in law hits 100 ( hears better than me, reads without glasses, ask how she is and she says she has a sore knee). Huge party and I'm guessing I'll be forgotten. 

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2 hours ago, Frank said:

hi CD, blimey you seem to be very knowledgeable on this Lithium battery gig, if you don't mind offering an opinion I'm doing a campervan fitout and intending to use Lithium , I'm using Half Moon Bay Electrical for supplying the entire  system and I'm sure they know what they are doing but I would appreciate a second opinion . Below is the component list and we are awaiting a 330AH victron battery which is still on a ship somewhere. With the 12/3000 inverter we intend to power an induction cooker , 800w kettle and 800w microwave but never all at once . There will be 2 x 220 W solar panels wired in series on the roof. 

Nothing about this system is cheap !! the battery alone is north of 5K 

Since I'm sinning by talking campervans on Crew.org I'll PM you for contact and I'm happy to pay for a consult.

 

 

image.png.bcf53cd8148c233bb145ba8ed114f7fa.png

You pay for what you get right. And you'll be paying a lot for that setup.

This setup is about as far away from a drop-in as you can get while still actually being drop-in... 

It's a bit different to a boat in that your main charging source will be the grid. Not the alternator, so you eliminate all the alternator concerns that exist on a boat.

It looks like your mainly planning on charging in campgrounds where power is plentiful?  If you're planning on extended (5day+) freedom camping you might want to consider a dedicated alternator/controller and get rid of the smart 12/12. Or just more solar panels. 

While it's horses for courses, the only thing I would of done differently would of been to go 24v or even 48v.  Less heat, more efficient, smaller wires, similar $

Although you're talking campervan, there's nothing wrong with the same set up on a boat, especially a boat that was able to add more solar...

This would be a mint setup for a large catamaran with an abundance of space for solar panels. 

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That article has done the rounds in every Lithium forum that I frequent. It has been well and truly torn to pieces by the community. 

Any credible accident investigator knows its not a single event or thing that causes an accident but a series of events. He doesn't give a single example, either hearsay or factual of a fire that's started due to a LFP battery.

If the insurance industry is relying on this 'professional' to give advice we are dommed. 

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11 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

That article has done the rounds in every Lithium forum that I frequent. It has been well and truly torn to pieces by the community. 

Any credible accident investigator knows its not a single event or thing that causes an accident but a series of events. He doesn't give a single example, either hearsay or factual of a fire that's started due to a LFP battery.

If the insurance industry is relying on this 'professional' to give advice we are dommed. 

I just read the rest of the thread I found that on at SA and it got torn to pieces there too . Very good discussion on the thread especially about induction cooktops and battery/charging systems to support them 

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15 hours ago, Island Time said:

This is a good example of a basic system

Lifpo4 battery setup.jpg

Would that be the same if you removed the alternator and substituted a regulator on an outboard setup? I am super chuffed with my 120AH LFP drop in, but only charge via solar or shore power at present which has some limitations.

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1 hour ago, Norwegian Blue said:

Would that be the same if you removed the alternator and substituted a regulator on an outboard setup? I am super chuffed with my 120AH LFP drop in, but only charge via solar or shore power at present which has some limitations.

Do you mean a stator with a external regulator? 

I have never seen that. Who makes external regulators for stators? 

Assuming that's what you mean then the alternator can be replaced with a stator and the external regulator would manage the charge profile. 

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9 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

Do you mean a stator with a external regulator? 

Yes, just the standard charging kit for outboards. I am thinking of putting the outboard into a well and making it electric start, so it would need a starter battery which won't play well with the LFP. And if I was charging a start battery, it would be nice to top up the LFP at the same time.

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11 minutes ago, Norwegian Blue said:

Yes, just the standard charging kit for outboards.

Then that would be an internal factory regulator .. yes?

It would totally depend on the model and specifications of your outboard and the stator.  99% of outboards are not designed to charge deep cycle batteries.  Stators generally don't have field control and the only thing that pushes back on them is the internal resistance of the battery of which Lithium has next to none.

No resistance = maximum stator current output = excessive heat = black smoke

I would suggest finding out what the maximum rating of the stator is and look at a DC/DC Li charger that runs at 30% of that capacity.

This is still a compromise as you'll need to find a way to top off your start battery.  This could be solar, or another DC/DC charger running off the Li.

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