Priscilla II 392 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 $10M to sort I think the public purse requires an explanation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ex Machina 366 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I thought anything that size would run centrifuges for bug and water removal ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 399 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Yes constant fuel polishing like most offshore cruising powerboats?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 HMNZS Aotearoa: Contaminated diesel fuel required multi-million dollar fix - and ship already rusty It was to be the jewel in the crown of the Royal New Zealand Navy, the $500-million, purpose-built supply ship that is the largest vessel ever to set sail under the white New Zealand ensign. But HMNZS Aotearoa has already hit troubled waters after less than four years in service. Herald inquiries have revealed the Navy has launched an inquiry after contaminated diesel led to the ship requiring fuel remediation work in Singapore. The Defence Force’s financial statements in its annual report said the estimated cost of the remediation work would be $9.23m. But a spokesman later clarified the expected cost of the remediation is likely to be “significantly less than $10m”. Meanwhile, the Navy has confirmed additional coating and corrosion issues have emerged on the ship. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hmnzs-aotearoa-new-navy-ship-already-rusty-9-million-damage-done/YMEV72JNMNFZBKMIOZF6D4LRN4/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 633 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Why do we have a navy in its current format? It seems to be not much more than "spirit of adventure" for adults. We dont project force, and we certainly cant defend our shores with it so perhaps we need a rethink? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 262 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Psyche said: Why do we have a navy in its current format? It seems to be not much more than "spirit of adventure" for adults. We dont project force, and we certainly cant defend our shores with it so perhaps we need a rethink? Straying into politics, but disaster recovery and monitoring of our exclusive economic zone are primary reasons. Same with the air farce. We dropped our strike fighter squadron because it did not serve a legitimate purpose. But maritime patrol, helos and Charlie 130's are very handy for a country parked at the bottom of the South Pacific that is prone to earthquakes and has a portion of the population that likes sailing, getting lost and hoping that an Orion (or new Poseidon) will come and find them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 644 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Psyche said: Why do we have a navy in its current format? It seems to be not much more than "spirit of adventure" for adults. We dont project force, and we certainly cant defend our shores with it so perhaps we need a rethink? Turn the navy in to coastguard service.Ocean customs watch.Fishery patrol.But we do win submarine exercises. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 633 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Sure, but wouldnt we be served better by having high speed coastal patrol vessels stationed around the country with a few dedicated supply and disaster relief ships? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 644 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 27 minutes ago, Psyche said: Sure, but wouldnt we be served better by having high speed coastal patrol vessels stationed around the country with a few dedicated supply and disaster relief ships? Remember the 4 thorny vosper we got back in the 70s?? totally unsuitable ex pommy ships,crews had to sleep down aft with officers due to the motion of the things. But yes fast coastal patrols designed for our conditions and not kept in Devonport .Base them Lyttleton/wellington/northland and maybe milford sounds that way they can patrol the west coast rather crossing bar harbours The Airforce just some 737s fitted out for survelience work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 a frigate is generally regarded as the smallest vessel all weather all ocean capable. The Navy, like all of our very limited Armed Forces, are there to play our part internationally, and provide resources for Natural disasters. The ChCH earthquake and Cyclone Gabriel are classic examples - you want to discuss this with the people of Napier and East cape about what the defense forces did for them ? The Government has virtually no other resources to use. Our Defense forces are bleeding experienced people as they are so under resourced. The resource we have is supposed to complement those of our close defense partners, as we can not expect a country of 5.5 mil to have complete modern defense capabilities. The world is more unstable now than for some time, it's not the time to run down the military IMO. Think about history - Brittan's defense was "unnecessary" according to many before the Napoleonic wars, again in 1913, again in early 1940's - and in all cases took time to rebuild. Other countries have similar examples. Are we not supposed to learn from history? 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 262 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Psyche said: Sure, but wouldnt we be served better by having high speed coastal patrol vessels stationed around the country with a few dedicated supply and disaster relief ships? You mean like the Inshore and Offshore Patrol craft that are home-based at regional ports around the country, along with one working frigate and a fleet support ship? Oh, and a survey ship to keep our charts up to date, for international commerce. Sounds exactly like what we have. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 128 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I find this somewhat peculiar... I would expect the rate of fuel usage would mean the fuel is consumed faster than the fungal culture would grow... this is normal in commercial marine applications. Unless that is, the vessel was bunkered with what was already contaminated fuel ....? Yes, there will be centrifuges to clean the fuel plus additional filtration, and continual polishing of the fuel in the day service tanks. There should also be scheduled fuel tank cleaning and inspections as part of routine maintenance. As far as mechanical engine damage goes, this is very unlikely and is usually limited to blocked filtration and maybe fuel lines, but the cultures usually slough of the pipes when the layer is thicker and the fuel velocity increases, this then collects at the filters. This vessel should be ready for service. That it is down for such a preventable reason, only indicates insufficient, incompetent and/or lazy maintenance practices. Having operated and maintained fleets of trawlers and, fleets of HS ferries in the tropics and a fleet in New Zealand, I can say I have never experienced this problem to the degree that it could not be managed.... I have seen it evidenced a few times when routinely changing filters. Biocides are then added and extra filters brought on board just in case, but these have never been required. Navigating a Retention Crisis The backdrop to these technical troubles is a broader retention crisis within the Navy, with a notable departure of marine propulsion technicians. This personnel challenge adds a layer of complexity to the ongoing maintenance and operational readiness of HMNZS Aotearoa, reflecting wider staffing issues within the defense sector. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 322 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 22 hours ago, Island Time said: Are we not supposed to learn from history? Crikey what are the future 2nd & 3rd generations going do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 399 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Actually with the volume of fuel on these ships it will not be burned before the Bug can grow, also mechanical damage can and will occur particularly with common rail engines and electronic injectors. The key point to know here is that no water in fuel = no bug . This goes for a frigate or a Reactor with a 1GM Yanmar. Most major Diesel manufacturers do not recommend biocides . Prevention is better than cure.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LBD 128 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 12 hours ago, waikiore said: Actually with the volume of fuel on these ships it will not be burned before the Bug can grow, also mechanical damage can and will occur particularly with common rail engines and electronic injectors. Maybe you should define "damage" I know in very low fuel use situations, the "bug can turn the fuel slightly more acidic and cause corrosion, but not in any commercial applications, say 500 hrs pa. plus My experience with several thousand engines over the years, including over 1000 in service at the current time drawing from a single bulk storage tank where the culture thrives, does not support anything but blockages type problems. Low Sulphur fuel damage was been mistakenly attributed to the "Bug" a number of years ago. OEMs have tried to blame the bug as a warranty escape clause... but independent tear downs and RCAs have always debunked this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 399 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Any water/bug going through an electronic injector and you have a big expensive problem, our navy has already experienced this many years ago with some German built diesels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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