Guest Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Considering they are similar length, similar timing on the water with new armas. Whos ticked the speed box. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 THAT is the big question and time will tell! Link to post Share on other sites
Spencebox 5 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I imagine that Triple 8, Taeping and Charleston are very much looking forward to another boat to race also. Mathwew Flynns boat is looming to boot. Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 My vote is Frantic will murder TW in virtually all conditions. We are holding onto a glimmer of hope only in a strong breeze. In the light ,forget it ! Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 You sure you're not talkin' it down Tee Dubya? I reckon it's great to see that NZ'ers can have 2 examples of the latest design thinking in the water already. Big ups to both of you! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 A betting man would say the drift all day long. Lighter with a bigger rig. "latest design thinking" really? apart from the ram bows the wolf hull form is quite old fashioned. Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Welcome aboard newbie. You sure you're not someone we already know with a new name? MS gets upset if people use multiple log ins you know... Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 346 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I had a look at FD on Saturday arvo. very cool. noticed very blunt bows on the amas? Is there any reason for that. TW seems to have nice sharp bows. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Twinkletoes, I believe Timberwolf is sporting very "latest design thinking" amas. That is the part that was replaced, Tim would be the first to agree the hull is "quite old fashioned", but why would he replace that without needing to. He may as well have started anew, but that would have cost him a hell of a lot more Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Tim why do you say FD will murder you. Thought they were pretty similar, or do i have that wrong.??? I noticed you have curved foils and FD doesnt. Maybe reaching you might be quicker???? Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Tim why do you say FD will murder you.Thought they were pretty similar, or do i have that wrong.??? I noticed you have curved foils and FD doesnt. Maybe reaching you might be quicker???? Because they are lighter they have a better power to weight ratio than we do, and by a quite significant amount. Its exactly the same logic as to why Charleston is so much faster than us. In Strong Upwind and reaching we go well against Charleston but other than those occassional conditions, forget it. TWolf has never beaten FD. The one time we got ahead of them with only a few hundred metres to the finish, they deliberately pissed it in to maintain their perfect record. The foils are really awesome but unfortunately we hardly get to use them. Also the guys on FD do sail their boat a lot better than we sail ours. Link to post Share on other sites
Hurts 6 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Interesting thread: the FD guys are very quiet. Do we have any actual facts as far as weight sail area etc goes for the two boats? And lets throw Charleston in as well as they seem to be in the same "weapon" category. TW and Charleston were weighed a few months back - what were the actual numbers. I heard 650Kg being bandied about for FD in old config and I'm not sure what was on board at the time - what is she supposed to weigh now? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 JohnMi Just because you build something new dosen"t make it modern. The wolfs new amas are quite an old fashioned "v" section especially forward as opposed to the new more moden “u” style sections that are becoming very common in “modern” designs. Also the wolf looks to have quite abit more rocker in the amas than the drift, rocker is handie in a sea way but just kills your speed ask alingi who had to put heaps of rocker in the 90 to get the big overhangs and stay at 90ft (didn't help the other guys had a wing to) Link to post Share on other sites
TimW 1 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Fd is supposed to weigh 750 kg without its rig (two beams, three hulls and fittings on), weghed in the same state TW was 906 kg. Rig height TW is 13.6m, FD is 14m, Sail area I think is much the same. FD has more rocker than TW (we have 160mm), I believe they have 200mm. We don't require as much buoyancy hence the "v" sections as we are relying on our foils for some of that. A Fine boat should be better upwind in waves ? Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 what is rocker and how is it measured? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Can't all be about weight Tim? There is a lot bigger gap than 156kg between the lightest 8.5 and the heaviest, and some of the heavy ones regularly beat the lightest of the new 8.5. (epsom salts ) So if the sail area is much the same you shouldn’t you have a fighting chance? Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 322 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 what is rocker and how is it measured? something similar to a lazyboy. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim C 23 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Just because you build something new dosen"t make it modern. The wolfs new amas are quite an old fashioned "v" section especially forward as opposed to the new more moden “u” style sections that are becoming very common in “modern” designs. Also the wolf looks to have quite abit more rocker in the amas than the drift, rocker is handie in a sea way but just kills your speed ask alingi who had to put heaps of rocker in the 90 to get the big overhangs and stay at 90ft (didn't help the other guys had a wing to) I'd suggest that V'd and U'd sectioned boats have been around since the beginning of boat design, one is neither older or better than the other. The last AC boats were optimised for light conditions in Valencia, with long boats in long lazy swells. The optimum shape for these boats is most likely a circular shape for minimum wetted area and lift. The reality of relatively short boats in choppy Auckland and coastal conditions is the boats encounter waves (and ferry wakes) at speed. Both the landings of the leeward float, and the wave slamming on the windward float, are softened by a bit of V in the bottom, not just reducing harsh pitching of the hulls, but also reducing the pitching in the rig. As important is the vertical distribution of buoyancy, down low in these floats and the forward deck line aimed at shedding water as fast as possible. Having designed the Timberwolf floats with TImW, we put a lot of thought into a versatile shape for local conditions... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well guys this thread is all very flattering to FD. We had a nice sail on Sunday we couldn't press on it to sail downwind on on one hull as the bow pole needs some tweaks on the wires. But upwind the boat felt really good. Its much better balanced than it ever was before. Now when we get a gust the boat really moves forward rather than sinking the leeward float and tripping up. As far as how we will go I think the boat is faster than it was. While we have been out of the water the open fleet has stepped up lots. We are looking forward to getting back out racing but we wont be just racing TW we will be racing all the open fleet as I think we will all have our wind range when we shine. Link to post Share on other sites
samin 0 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Considering they are similar length, similar timing on the water with new armas. Whos ticked the speed box. FD has dropped off race track but before it did it was above Taeping. TW with its new floats is still 10% slower than Taeping on RT. Therefore I think FD with its old floats would still beat TW with its new floats, in most conditions. however....... Will Triple 8 keep up with the Taeping? No chance with out being rude one is a race boat and one is a racer/ cruser. I have a feeling this comment will come back to bite Dan int he first race he completes in over 15 knots of breeze Link to post Share on other sites
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