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8 hours ago, Black Panther said:

In October covid didnt exist.

Or are you saying they should go there now? Then they would need a b1b2 visa. This can take years. I know this. It also requires quite a bit of money. ( first time i got one in 1980 it was $10,000. )

No... I am saying that they could have gone three separate ways to avoid the risk of hurricanes. 

They are Germans this means they are EU citizens. As an EU citizen, you are allowed to stay in French Polynesia and are allowed to renew this for quiet some time. Given this status:

  1. They could have stayed put on Nuka Hiva thru all of this. Which is exactly what we are doing here in New Zealand. We had planed to go to Fiji this season but decided that it was inappropriate to leave here and expect to have a hurricane refuge in some other country.
  2. They could have sailed south to the eastern Tuamotu where There have been no recorded cyclones in the Tuamotus in a La Nina year.  and the eastern end of the archipelago is basically hurricane free at all times. While it can get windy, there are an almost unlimited spots to anchor in the Lee of the Motus.
  3. They could have had the option of refueling and re-provisioning here and departing west I suppose they are pushing that way anyways?

By mentioning Hawaii, I was only disagreeing with your statement that you can't sail there because of Hurricanes, and I pointed out that "World Cruising Routes" lists the Oct-Dec time period as a most desirable time to make this transit. Waiting until November is very practical. According to Noonsite Hawaii is open at this time but I have no idea of any other visa status that these two men and a woman from Germany may have. They do have all the options above.

I still wish to reiterate that I too wished and had hoped that New Zealand would open it's borders to cruisers, but out of fairness to all the gov chose not to. This is very understandable, it is justified, and reasonable.

Edited by 2flit
Corrected (Nov-Dec), to (Oct-Dec)for Tahiti-Hawaii
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I don't see how they would be 'stuck' in Tahiti? With a Carte de Seyjour, they could easily sail to Nuka Hiva or sail to the eastern Tuamotu for hurricane season, or even Hawaii to the north. The

Well yes there sort of is rational and sort of a sh*t load of it. As noted they did ask to come and were told No so what did they do, they thought f*ck you new Zealand, f*ck your laws, f*ck the r

They want to come to NZ not because their son died, not because of weather problems, but because their broker says the yacht will sell more easily here. They left and buried their son in the uk,

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7 hours ago, Fish said:

It doesn't say they were deported. It says they were denied entry, and INZ were "arranging for them to be flown home on the next available flight".

Just coming back from a mud boat meeting and the news was saying the 3 of them are outta here tomorrow (Tuesday) morning on a jet plane. No word on the boat but there is precedent and law that says it can be impounded then sold to defray costs. BUT NZ is usually not quick to do that and tends to say 'Gimme ${a nice but still a bit token sum} and say you're sorry, if you do then here's ya boat and piss off', as is arguably a fair result in many cases.

But it also has jumped on many hard and fined big numbers then also sold the boats as well, they are 99.99% commercial and mostly fishing boats/ships. So my totally taking a guess thought is the 3 will have been told 'Organise someone to sort your boat out or we will, you have XXX time frame', which is also probably extendible if asked nicely.

The 3 will be flown home and they will probably keep their boat or proceeds from. They may also but then may not have a blemish placed on their passport, being deported is like having a Bangkok or North Korean stamp in your passport, a red flag that has you meeting new border control people a lot. I did hear a cock womble (gezz I love that so accurate description) the other day saying 'We can tag them as being deported if we choose' in a tone that suggested 'we aren't planning on doing that but if they play up we may change our mind'. Again that fits the usual NZ MO for things like this.

Should it work out like that and I can see it more like that than something else, I'd call it a fair result all things considered.

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"That would be sailing around Cape Horn. I'm sorry but that's not a response. There are some yachts that did have the ability to leave their boat in a marina or boat yard and fly home over the last few months. However, the marinas and the boat yards are now full.

"The issue is that there are more boats than there are facilities because normally they go to New Zealand and Australia for the cyclone season. It's just not practical to send boats home."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018765969/nz-rejecting-pacific-yachts-in-cyclone-season-ludicrous-ocean-cruising-club-boss

The argument that it is not fair to let these guys in doesn't stack up. Totally different circumstances to those flying in.

These guys are the epitome of self sufficient and can complete their quarantine more or less independently. The resources required for managing this is minimal.  

They could of been arriving on a staggered timeframe to simplify it further. NZ could have and should have behaved like a sensible, rational and responsible international citizen.

The comment by the DG of health that the yachts can come if there is a cyclone proves he has no comprehension of the situation.

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6 hours ago, Sabre said:

 

"That would be sailing around Cape Horn. I'm sorry but that's not a response. There are some yachts that did have the ability to leave their boat in a marina or boat yard and fly home over the last few months. However, the marinas and the boat yards are now full.

"The issue is that there are more boats than there are facilities because normally they go to New Zealand and Australia for the cyclone season. It's just not practical to send boats home."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018765969/nz-rejecting-pacific-yachts-in-cyclone-season-ludicrous-ocean-cruising-club-boss

The argument that it is not fair to let these guys in doesn't stack up. Totally different circumstances to those flying in.

These guys are the epitome of self sufficient and can complete their quarantine more or less independently. The resources required for managing this is minimal.  

They could of been arriving on a staggered timeframe to simplify it further. NZ could have and should have behaved like a sensible, rational and responsible international citizen.

The comment by the DG of health that the yachts can come if there is a cyclone proves he has no comprehension of the situation.

So what you are saying here, in short, is the "humanitarian" issue is where to park the boat? There are areas in the FP territory that don't get cyclones - Eastern Taumuto's, so is the issue really the French not extending visas?

It sounds like these three deutch will have a safe park for their boat, be flown home, be asked to cover their costs (flights) and be allowed to sell their boat and keep the proceeds, or possibly pay to park it for a long time, and maybe come back and get it, albeit with a bit of bureaucracy to deal with.

Paradoxically, I think the situation is about fairness - to those that couldn't get into NZ to see dieing parents, attend funerals, say their good bye's etc. There is no way to manage the arrival of 300 boats. You can't schedule them like planes. How much space has the Opua Q dock got, 20 boats? maybe 30 max?

I'm simply not seeing a humanitarian issue, other than the French kicking people out. Or is the problem that FP is hellishly expensive, and staying up there for 6 months would kill the kitty?

Yes, it would be nice to let them all in. It would also be nice to have the kids attend school for a full term, to be able to meet work clients face to face, and not have to worry about loosing my job if there is a 2nd wave. Sometimes life is not fair, and you just have to adapt to it.

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10 minutes ago, Black Panther said:

If the authorities in Tahiti are telling you to leave, that includes tuamotus and Marquesas . Same jurisdiction. 

I am aware of that.

What I am asking, is what is the actual issue? Sounds like it is the French kicking them out. That is not a humanitarian issue, that is an overstayer / visa issue.

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18 minutes ago, Fish said:

I am aware of that.

What I am asking, is what is the actual issue? Sounds like it is the French kicking them out. That is not a humanitarian issue, that is an overstayer / visa issue.

So if you were faced with having your boat taken and being deported from FP or sailing to NZ and taking your chances which would you choose?

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You asked me that yesterday. I'd sail to NZ, we are far more reasonable than the French.

My point is, this thing was framed as a humanitarian issue, "We must get out of the Pacific or face certain death from Cyclones".

People around here have been posting as if the NZ govt are turning away Syrian refugees arriving at out border. That would be a humanitarian issue. Right at the start, in one of the press releases, one of these cruisers said they didn't want to pay the $1,000 application fee to go into Fiji. What is wrong with going to Fiji, they will let you in.

In reality, the issue is they don't want to overstay in FP, and can't get a visa extension. This whole issue is being dressed up as something that it is not.

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