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Eh???

If they hold UK passports they can return to the UK anytime. They will have to do 2 weeks quarantine but there is nothing stopping a UK citizen returning the UK from anywhere in the world at any time. Same as NZ citizens coming home here.

Or have I missed your point?

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I don't see how they would be 'stuck' in Tahiti? With a Carte de Seyjour, they could easily sail to Nuka Hiva or sail to the eastern Tuamotu for hurricane season, or even Hawaii to the north. The

Well yes there sort of is rational and sort of a sh*t load of it. As noted they did ask to come and were told No so what did they do, they thought f*ck you new Zealand, f*ck your laws, f*ck the r

They want to come to NZ not because their son died, not because of weather problems, but because their broker says the yacht will sell more easily here. They left and buried their son in the uk,

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You are correct Fogg, but then how come they can't return to the UK from FP? There are flights from there to Europe, possibly direct I think.

I think the point is that these other essential visa holders all have a third party guaranteeing they will be repatriated. The cruisers will use visitors visas, which don't have that third party guarantee. Given their current argument for needing to leave FP (visa expired) and needing to come to NZ (no where else to go), there is a high likelihood that at least a proportion of these cruisers either wont want to or wont be able to leave NZ again...

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11 minutes ago, Fish said:

I think the point is that these other essential visa holders all have a third party guaranteeing they will be repatriated. The cruisers will use visitors visas, which don't have that third party guarantee. Given their current argument for needing to leave FP (visa expired) and needing to come to NZ (no where else to go), there is a high likelihood that at least a proportion of these cruisers either wont want to or wont be able to leave NZ again...

well maybe if they are to be let in the government should follow French Polynesia's long term practice of requiring a repatriation bond for all crew, if they do not have a onwards airfare

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25 minutes ago, Fogg said:

Eh???

If they hold UK passports they can return to the UK anytime. They will have to do 2 weeks quarantine but there is nothing stopping a UK citizen returning the UK from anywhere in the world at any time. Same as NZ citizens coming home here.

Or have I missed your point?

This specific family probably could Fogg, yes.  At the moment.  If the UK goes to the NZ or Aussie model and significantly constrains inbound travel, that may change.

And that is the presenting problem.  Literally nowhere is able to give certainty about how they will treat their border during COVID.

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11 minutes ago, Fish said:

You are correct Fogg, but then how come they can't return to the UK from FP? There are flights from there to Europe, possibly direct I think.

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

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2 minutes ago, 2flit said:

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

Hire a NZ crew to fly up (or sail up) and bring it back.

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1 minute ago, 2flit said:

Fish... As a side note. The mother wrote me to say that they have no place to keep the boat around Tahiti other than a mooring. It's reportedly a $1M asset the sale of which is their only pathway back to having a home in the UK. She says that there is no hull insurance available to them in Tahiti where they could try to sell the boat. They can fly back to the UK... but what to do with the boat which they must sell? 

I've no problem with them coming here. From the photos it looks like an Oyster 50 something, which is likely worth in the region of what they are talking about. The NZ market is hot for good sized family holiday / cruising boats. I have little doubt they will sell it here quickly. Might struggle to get a marina berth though...

For the wider cruiser fraternity, I think the issues are around the visitor visa and ability to leave later. I would have thought, as MH suggests, a pragmatic solution is a repatriation bond just as FP already use. I do hope that after the election, some things loosen up, whilst maintaining tight virus border control. Just the voyage time from Tahiti to here is going to be very, very effective qurantine. It is not like these guys have transited through a virus ridden airport lounge 10 hrs before touching down at Opua marina...

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It's a Discovery 55. Better than an Oyster IMO (the later ones at least).

I think the difference between these guys and normal cruisers is the tragic death of their 14yr boy. This prospect would bring a chill to the spine of any sailing parent.

So the family are obviously already emotionally traumatised and they are trying to avoid being financially traumatised as well- which as we all know would further emotionally affect them etc.

So I do think there is an unusual (tragic) aspect to their case which few general policies would cater for - hence a fresh review is warranted in this case I feel.

Getting a delivery crew to sail it to NZ could be difficult too. I've just bought a new boat in Asia (yes it was a much better deal than if I had bought it in NZ hence the reason I did it). And it's nigh-on impossible to find a delivery crew to do any ocean trips right now what with the border uncertainties, health risks and quarantine complications etc. So the only option left is shipping and regardless of cost - I don't even know if it would be an option to get a large yacht safely cradled & shipped from FP to NZ via cargo ship anyway.

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31 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:

 If the UK goes to the NZ or Aussie model and significantly constrains inbound travel, that may change.

I don't think it could. Under international law no country can prevent a legitimate passport-holding citizen from returning home - assuming that citizen can find a way to present themselves to their home country's border i.e. via land, sea or air.

The only exceptions are for security threats e.g. known or suspected terrorists.

Otherwise, a country would effectively be making it's citizens 'stateless' meaning they could not travel anywhere - not even back to their own home country. Which is illegal unless done for the security reason above - which is very rare. 

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2 minutes ago, Fogg said:

I don't think it could. Under international law no country can prevent a legitimate passport-holding citizen from returning to it's country - assuming that citizen can find a way to present themselves to the border i.e. via land, sea or air.

The only exceptions are for security threats e.g. known or suspected terrorists.

Otherwise, a country would effectively be making it's citizens 'stateless' meaning they could not travel anywhere - not even back to their own home country. Which is illegal unless done for the security reason above - which is very rare. 

Its not the border, its the availability of flights, and lining up the requirement to book MIQ in some cases. Literally the ability to get to the border.

But yes, I would have thought this family should have been given compassionate grounds. Easy for a faceless bureaucrat to say no, then a smiling PM to say yes in a public way 3 days out from an election. Optics look better ay?

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