Yacht missing around Gisbourne

[Guest 000]

In an earlier post on this thread I alluded to my opinion that what is needed is to form a lobby group in order to reverse or at least preserve the status quo in regard to the amateur yachtman's rapidly diminishing rights and freedoms.

I think that we all agree that we are being seriously messed around with by governmental busybodies with nothing better to do than stick their unwanted noses into our activities.

This forum is greatly valued as a platform to exchange ideas, get help and even let off a bit of steam now and again. But, by the nature of what we do out there on the water the membership is comprised of a bunch of strong willed independent people who are very adept at addressing their own problems and applying their own solutions.

No one in government is ever going to listen to an individual.

But we do have a large membership with a commonality of purpose, enough I think that with a unified approach, people in authority would listen to our concerns.

Politicising the forum goes seriously against the grain. It's a toss up between doing that and trying to reverse the erosion of our liberties, or doing nothing and accept the restrictions that will inevitably occur.

[grant 40]

In an earlier post on this thread I alluded to my opinion that what is needed is to form a lobby group in order to reverse or at least preserve the status quo in regard to the amateur yachtman's rapidly diminishing rights and freedoms.

I think that we all agree that we are being seriously messed around with by governmental busybodies with nothing better to do than stick their unwanted noses into our activities.

This forum is greatly valued as a platform to exchange ideas, get help and even let off a bit of steam now and again. But, by the nature of what we do out there on the water the membership is comprised of a bunch of strong willed independent people who are very adept at addressing their own problems and applying their own solutions.

No one in government is ever going to listen to an individual.

But we do have a large membership with a commonality of purpose, enough I think that with a unified approach, people in authority would listen to our concerns.

Politicising the forum goes seriously against the grain. It's a toss up between doing that and trying to reverse the erosion of our liberties, or doing nothing and accept the restrictions that will inevitably occur.

Yachting NZ? 

 

also when all the organisations that you don't like put out boring stuff that is of no interest, like bylaws, Maritime rules etc, it does pay to have a read occasionally, and comment on them.

 

something that tends to happen ( and in general not just maritime areas) is that little interest is paid when changes are proposed but plenty get upset after that fact, 

 

and to be honest the rules really haven't changed a great deal over time, boating in NZ is still quite lightly regulated (and long it remain so) Maybe the observation and enforcement of rules is both occurring more and is now more obvious when it does occur.

 

I do get amused when someone discovers a "new and oppressive rule"  that has been around for 30+ years that they never knew about or paid attention to previously

[Steve Pope 243]

Well the new cat 1 2 3 rules are in draft mode apparently, maybe they could be / should be put up on "Crew" for general perusal and comment before they become "law" We could all learn what is being suggested and perhaps contribute to the discussion.

[Guest 000]

Grant, I'm not referring to laws already in place, but what is likely to be enacted in the future.

In the few short years I've been a member of this forum we had compulsory lifejackets and compulsory drydocking foisted upon us - both issues which have drawn numerous negative posts.

Maybe you think that the status quo will continue indefinitely, I don't. Beareaucrats by nature are unable to leave things alone and yachtsmen are a soft target.

So when some new unpalatable regulation is visited on the sailing community we can all dash off as few ' oh dear, how sad' posts to the forum, roll over an accept, or at least try and get organised to do something about it.

I'm prepared to try.

[armchairadmiral 411]

Me too ! YNZ is the obvious vehicle but unfortunately the current regime seems to be compliant ,agreeable and work within the system . Shame. Sailing's problem is there are not enough of us and sailing is seen as a rich boys pastime.We won't generate much media / public sympathy. Like lifejackets, boat cleaning, ridiculous safety gear regulations. Civil disobedience is a first line along with protest.I'll bet the new Cat.1,2 & 3 will all but debar most of us from racing outside a harbour.Most of this gear is superfluous nonsense taking away personal responsibility.I remember a briefing for a Fiji race given by Harry Pope. In a nutshell he told us that if we were going to get into trouble and yell for help then we shouldn't go.Now there's so little difference between a race to BOI and a Fiji race safety requirement. Yet any boat can sail to BOI with only basic gear. And that's where racing needs to get back to.

[grant 40]

Grant, I'm not referring to laws already in place, but what is likely to be enacted in the future.

In the few short years I've been a member of this forum we had compulsory lifejackets and compulsory drydocking foisted upon us - both issues which have drawn numerous negative posts.

Maybe you think that the status quo will continue indefinitely, I don't. Beareaucrats by nature are unable to leave things alone and yachtsmen are a soft target.

So when some new unpalatable regulation is visited on the sailing community we can all dash off as few ' oh dear, how sad' posts to the forum, roll over an accept, or at least try and get organised to do something about it.

I'm prepared to try.

for the most part i agree with you, 

 

where i would disagree is the comment about sailors being an easy target.  for two reasons;

 

10+ years (maybe 15ish?) ago compulsory lifejackets was mooted in reaction to small boat drownings,  statistically making them compulsory in under 4m made sense.  The main thing that stopped it was YNZ in regards to dinghies going to and from yachts in an anchorage.  Regardless of what you think of them YNZ are a strong lobby group.  use yuor voice and the clubs voice to make sure they are pointing in the direction you want. (or can accept)

 

Secondly, yachties are for the most part incidental targets; again in relation to lifejackets, the problem is too many people in too small a boat with no gear,no clue and not many chances.  What ever you think should happen to them, they all have family and are going to be missed if they don't come back, and that is where the focus is, same with the majority of the safety campaigns.  By YNZ rules alone i would say 99% of yachts meet the required safety standard.  Numbers wise sailors in NZ are not huge when compared to the total boating population of stink boats, dinghies, kayaks etc, and when you look at accidents, again with a few exceptions yachts feature because something broke/fell down/fell off OR someone was being a knob.   You aren't a target group (except for the clean bum issue i guess)

 

I totally endorse you view on having your say though, it should be done, whether you dislike a proposed change or if you support it., just try and remember the change might not be aimed at you...

[Black Panther 1,586]

Well the new cat 1 2 3 rules are in draft mode apparently, maybe they could be / should be put up on "Crew" for general perusal and comment before they become "law" We could all learn what is being suggested and perhaps contribute to the discussion.

I suggested that to you some years ago and was told no way. Never going to happen. Love to see someone else ask now.

[wheels 543]

While I have most stuff that would cover us under a Cat 3 requirement, please all remember that Cat 1,2,3 are required for racing. And most are part of a Club because of Racing. But I am not in any Club anymore and I have never raced my own boat. So those of us that are not members of a Club that races, likely never gets to see Rules and Regs and Updates and Proposals and all the what have you's.

Aside from that though, I think we are getting off track on what the real issue is. Re the SA lad with restrictions MNZ have placed upon him that is. The real question is what exactly has this Lad done that is breaking the Law? I don't believe he is endangering anyone or even Himself. He has proven he can Sail the Boat just fine. Many here have said the same thing. I think the real argument is that MNZ are being too heavy handed. It's not about the Law as such, but that I don't believe MNZ are being fair here.

[Steve Pope 243]

Unfortunately "fair" doesn't seem to be in MNZ's lexicon.

It is not a crime to sail into the blue yonder, in fact I imagine you could sail anywhere you like for as long as you like, returning to NZ without having to re-enter so long as you haven't put in to another country.

[Zozza 293]

Unfortunately "fair" doesn't seem to be in MNZ's lexicon.

It is not a crime to sail into the blue yonder, in fact I imagine you could sail anywhere you like for as long as you like, returning to NZ without having to re-enter so long as you haven't put in to another country.

 

I recall reading one of Andrew Fagan's books, and I think he did just this - to Sunday (Raoul?) Island and back I think.

[eruptn 95]

Yip I did that trip in 1994, we sailed up to Raoul an back, never left NZ.

[Myjane 40]

I read the young guy with the yacht made it to Auckland is that right and the blue coats holding him there , they have no right to do that unless they can prove boat and owner are are a safety risk to each other or others , , what's the up date

[wheels 543]

No his Boat is being held at Whakatane.

[Myjane 40]

Pack of mongrels who do they think they are , this Is police state tactics , they have nothing else to do ,except pick on a sailor learning the ropes his way , they way most of us did , unbelievable , I don't think I will renew my cg fees this time if that's what they do with it ,

[grant 40]

, I don't think I will renew my cg fees this time if that's what they do with it ,

 

argh! please don't pick on CG, they were asked to do a job i.e. transport someone to the yacht,

 

have a go at MNZ or minister of transport if you want but don't pick on the volunteers who where doing what was asked of them

[Dagwood 57]

As a Coastguard volunteer master NOT speaking on behalf of the organisation - let me quickly assure you our training clearly and continually reinforces the fact that we have absolutely no more authority on the water than any other member of "Joe Public". 

 

The vast majority (if not in fact all) of the volunteers I've met over the years are not interested in any form of enforcement or confrontation - they just enjoy lending a hand.

[Guest 000]

Well, I'm a bit out of the loop here as to whats going on with this chap and his boat but, if the extent of his wrongdoing is to not check in as he said he would and as a result MNZ have virtually commandeered his vessel, forced him to enter an unsafe port and are now holding him in some sort of custody apart from his vessel then I would suggest that we here in NZ have a problem, unless of course this is a one-off event that we all believe will never ever ever be repeated.

Fight for your rights or not?

[Nzgrant 19]

As a Coastguard volunteer master NOT speaking on behalf of the organisation - let me quickly assure you our training clearly and continually reinforces the fact that we have absolutely no more authority on the water than any other member of "Joe Public".

 

The vast majority (if not in fact all) of the volunteers I've met over the years are not interested in any form of enforcement or confrontation - they just enjoy lending a hand.

argh! please don't pick on CG, they were asked to do a job i.e. transport someone to the yacht,

 

have a go at MNZ or minister of transport if you want but don't pick on the volunteers who where doing what was asked of them

However they did participate infact enable this deplorable incident. It is my understanding that the defence of just carrying out someone elses orders didnt work in the war crimes trials after world war 2.

 

And before I get flamed for hating CG, I am a member and do believe they do a good job until this incident. They have been used and should have declined mnz request to be enforcers.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Coastguard has just advertised for radio operators who must work 12 hour shifts!!!! That's what I call safety. NOT. I'm a member but it seems members don't have voting rights. I'll probably cancel my membership and "self-insure".

[smithy09 50]

Just read this whole thread. Unreal! If I was in NZ I would be happy to help this guy out with some safety gear. I have a spare VHF at home.  MNZ. What mongrels. Like someone else said already, this guy's only crime was not to call home. This is very heavy handed action and certainly not the way we want to see NZ going. I'm pretty disgusted.