mattm 98 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 There is a schedue of deemed to comply explosives but I just can't be bothered going through it - bet flares are actually in there somewhere! Well you did better than I did, I expected there to be a list, but couldn't find it, I'd happily spend a little time going through it if I could find the damn thing. I agree, the permit application form should be easy to find, and I suspect the f it was there intention to have so many boats / ships / planes fill it in, it would be very easy to find, and total common knowledge. I'm sure this inspector must have it wrong too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,587 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Speaking of YNZ isn't this something they sgould pick up and get sorted? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 when i last flew into auckland i declared that i was carrying personal goods worth over $1000 and had "food" so into the goods to declare lane while i showed them some factory made biscuits and my old nikon it was wasting both their time + mine but that's what their form requires and until they change it i will have to clog up their declare lane they are only flexible in their interpretations when it suits them + blind to logic when required and let's not go into when i got cranky with a small dog handler for being shoved in the back because they thought i may stand on the dog "not a good look to be assaulting arrivals when they step back from their luggage " "we are trained to protect the dog and it wasn't assault" "if you want to protect the dog don't creep up behind people...if that wasn't assault are you happy for me to shove you like that right now?" "if you'd like to file an official complaint blah blah blah" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mattm 98 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 YNZ have been approached, although I think it should be proven that the inspector was right in taking them. Might call EPA tomorrow and ask. Their site repeats, 'if you have any questions, contact us', so why not.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RushMan 31 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The flares were 2 weeks old, normal flares, same as you get here, in the yellow container with red lid. Customs guys said they were going to destroy them. WTF Destroyed after spending some time "stored" in the customs guy's boat I would love Customs to come and collect all my expired flares. Pretty hard to dispose of them otherwise, nobody wants them... In Melbourne they arranged a day/time when boats can set off flares on Port Phillip Bay. All the relevant authorities are notified, from memory it was just before the first race of the winter series (usually a glass out sitting around under AP waiting for the wind to fill in) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 The following from the Herald made me think of this thread - http://bit.ly/2thN1NN Then add in the whole Motutapu situation. And the guy forced to cross the Whakatane Bar when he was safely anchored at Whale Island. And the Coromandel harbourmaster stood down for saving an Orca without 'following protocol'. Unconnected? I don't think so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 ....We set off large quantities of old flares (several hundred) that have been handed in to various authorities. We do it as part of our normal training schedule. ( I have never heard of flares being confiscated from inbound vessels (anywhere) unless they are of the "Gun type", as in the ones that use something that looks a bit like a shot gun cartridge and are loaded into a hand piece. These are classed as guns in some countries) If the confiscated flares were normal flares and in date, then it is both odd and dangerous to remove them from the vessel. A simple lack of local paper work (if that was the case) should never be used as an excuse to compromise the safety of the vessel. "We" are Volunteer Marine Rescue Hastings / Mornington. ...and we are Based in Melbourne. Port Philip Bay and Westernport Bay. https://www.facebook.com/vmrmornington/ The one in the middle is TX1 "my" baby : ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeteG 13 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Matt I take it this was on the Bene? So taking it to the logical conclusion, all returning cruising boats will have their liferafts popped to remove the flares too? That will get expensive! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 A bit more digging. Here's where you get the "permit application" - 10working days, Opua and Picton not on the list of approved ports. Clearly this form is for commercial importation but I can't find any other. http://www.epa.govt.nz/hazardous-substances/importing-manufacturing/explosives/explosives-import-certificate/Pages/default.aspx Of course you can always apply for a determination on their ruling here - $1150 - but it's okay because that includes GST! http://www.epa.govt.nz/hazardous-substances/approvals/Pages/Formal-determination.aspx So then I decided to search the Regulations and the Act for "flares", "explosives" and "ship" and now I reckon this officer may have erred in law. If I interpreted the law correctly he does not have the jurisdiction to enforce the Act unless it's been given to by the Director of Maritime NZ. See http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1996/0030/latest/DLM384649.html?search=sw_096be8ed815edd96_Ship_25_se&p=1&sr=1 If any of you are slightly concerned that I've lost the plot, I can only concur with you! I am absolutely fed up with the way the beauratic state as permeated every aspect of our lives in this country. I put the blame squarely at the PSA. Indirectly they exist as a consequence of our hard earned taxes and rates but then spend their very existence protecting their members at all costs. A simple question "how do I deal with my onboard safety flares when I sail into NZ" should not actually be "practically impossible" to answer. Someone's head should roll but of course can't because of the way the PSA operates. I see this in my profession and I see this in almost every other aspect of my life. Rant over - back to figuring out how to "actually keep tigers enclosed" rather than listening to the so call experts in some ministry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I think it's clearly a either a screw up in the law through poor writing, or the guy is over reaching his authority and above all, it's misinterpreting the intent of the Act, or all of the above. I can pretty much guarantee that the intent of the act is not to deprive visiting sailors of necessary safety equipment, nor to deprive returning NZ sailors of necessary and mandated safety equipment. Someone should challenge this, make it public if necessary, and demand that those who've had flares confiscated have the cost of replacing those flares covered, due to the overzealous misinterpretation and application of a law intended to achieve something else. What's next? Will they confiscate the ships medical kit because it contains morphine? There's nothing that pisses me off more than an overzealous bureaucrat with a fluorovest, a clip board and a small dick who gets a sense of satisfaction from making criminals out of normal moral people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elenya 33 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Interestingly we did lose several items fom our medical kit when we last got back to nz in the yacht. We have normally arrived via opua and never had a problem but last time we arrived via picton and had morphine and various other restricted drugs confisscated. We di question this as I am qualified to administer these drugs as a big ship master, we could buy them all again the next day and we had crossed the border with them before. The answer we received was that it was that we could not import them i.e. Have them when crossing border. We knew this was not the case at opua. My guess is they are just not used to yachts entering the country at picton. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 clearly this needs to be pushed up the chain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Elenya - did the officer give you a receipt for the morphine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 This is also ridiculous ! If it is declared, authority to hold showed and then inspected, it should remain on the vessel. A serious Knowledge and ability in first aid along with self reliance is encouraged by all marine safety authorities, and indeed part of commercial tickets.... Making life difficult unessesarily risks a lowering of those standards... " but last time we arrived via picton and had morphine and various other restricted drugs confiscated." I am qualified to administer these drugs as a big ship master, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 http://www.customs.govt.nz/inprivate/arrivalbyprivatecraft/yachtsandsmallcraft/pages/default.aspx There is just nothing anywhere advising what to do about flares or controlled drugs on board when entering NZ. So I reckon that by declaring them on your Inward Report (in the Yacht Pack) you deem to comply with the permit requirements. This guy needs to be called on this and held to account. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Importing a class "a" drug such as morphine is a crime. I'm not sure being "qualified to administer" the drug would make any difference at all. Perhaps if you were a doctor and qualified to prescribe it would be the threshold. I have cleared in with some and a police friend said I was taking a risk and should have pitched it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 643 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Importing a class "a" drug such as morphine is a crime. I'm not sure being "qualified to administer" the drug would make any difference at all. Perhaps if you were a doctor and qualified to prescribe it would be the threshold. I have cleared in with some and a police friend said I was taking a risk and should have pitched it. On border patrol the other night in Queenstown,a doctor arrived with medicine he prescribed himself,nah lost most of it and to go to a nz Doctor,so do not think if your qualified to administer it would be allowed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just further demonstration that Custom are a law unto themselves! Typical of the overbearing bureaucratic nonsense that is destroying this place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Elenya 33 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Indeed on every commercial ship on international voyages an extensive medical supply is kept. I have never experienced any issue when at work only on my british registered yacht entering nz at picton. We did get a receipt and a follow up email from the officers manager. Not a major issue as the drugs would have been out of date before we head off again. Easy to replace amd not thatbexpensive. I do find the difference in enforcement interesting but that is the way if life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 375 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 If you have the relevant STCW qualification (or another recognised by NZ) issued by a convention signatory, then you have the right buy, hold and administer morphine onboard. If the right quals were in place, then a customs officer removing morphine is actually breaking international conventions and treaties and by implication, NZ law. Unless in this case, customs hold it and give it back on leaving, like firearms. This is what I'm talking about. And I'd wager that removal of safety equipment also falls under the same category. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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