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Cayman Islands Registry?


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Well Dr Watson, for me a lot of it IS about Cat 1 or not Cat 1.

 

I don't mind the epirb or life raft requirements, but some of the other rules are a "one size fits all" nature and have just not been thought through well enough.

 

I've already mentioned the requirement that someone on board has done an ocean passage - that aint gonna work for me as a single-hander, and no, I don't want to go to a passage on someone elses boat first - I frankly, don't want to put my safety into someone elses hands.  I am preparing my boat as best I can for the worst possible case scenarios - as much as one can anyway,y as nature is nature.  And I am not going sailing on someone else's boat offshore whom I have had no hand in setting boat up, just so some cat 1 inspector can tick a box.

 

Looking further through cat 1 rigging rules - its all rules for Bermudian boats.  My boat is rigged as Chinese lug rig, often called 'junk rig'.  How can you take seriously a set of rules that assume everyone is going to rig their boat Bermudan style?

 

 

Hi Zozza, I totally understand that and agree with you. I'd never considered the option of shipping a boat offshore and then sailing on. But to get that experience, as IT pointed out it needn't be an ocean crossing, perhaps a longer trip as ex-TL suggested? Chatham Islands?

 

However, the reason I started the thread was not to do with the issues or utility of getting Cat 1 - which we've debated back and forth on this forum any times on many threads - but to find a solution for registration due to pressures other than having to meet Cat 1. 

 

Some members have other reasons for needing something other than a NZ registration. As I understand it, BP was registered elsewhere, but due to other reasons had to register back in NZ. Some people don't want to register in NZ because of Cat 1, other people can't register in NZ because the boat is not owned but a citizen or resident.

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Hi Zozza, I totally understand that and agree with you. I'd never considered the option of shipping a boat offshore and then sailing on. But to get that experience, as IT pointed out it needn't be an ocean crossing, perhaps a longer trip as ex-TL suggested? Chatham Islands?

 

However, the reason I started the thread was not to do with the issues or utility of getting Cat 1 - which we've debated back and forth on this forum any times on many threads - but to find a solution for registration due to pressures other than having to meet Cat 1. 

 

Some members have other reasons for needing something other than a NZ registration. As I understand it, BP was registered elsewhere, but due to other reasons had to register back in NZ. Some people don't want to register in NZ because of Cat 1, other people can't register in NZ because the boat is not owned but a citizen or resident.

 

Good point Doctor, and didn't meant to hijack the thread!

 

But yep, fully intend to do some serious coastal cruising, and a longer trip to Chatham Islands would be on the cards for sure, and is no mean undertaking requiring careful planning and a definite good test I would say.

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and, no doubt, people who have not actually been thru the NZ system.... Its not that bad - except for the cost of the registration, which is stupid high for a piece of paper you get nothing for!

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and, no doubt, people who have not actually been thru the NZ system.... Its not that bad - except for the cost of the registration, which is stupid high for a piece of paper you get nothing for!

 

Pity I'm  not a Pom.

From the UK Small Ships Registration website:

 

The UK Ship Register

You can register your boat with the UK Ship Register for use at sea.

Part III registration

Register your boat on the Part III (Small Ships Register) if you want to prove the boat’s nationality when sailing outside UK waters.

It costs £25 for 5 years.

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Perhaps, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ve found my cat1 experiences pretty easy. Plus I think a seaworthy vessel should be to that standard anyway, with a few obvious exceptions in some circumstances - like a throw line for a single gander etc. but I must say in those situations, the inspector has just ignored those items.

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Just had another flick through the Jersey registration.  One of the benefits of ownership is that you are outside the EU and UK so can temporarily import your yacht into the EU for 18 months without paying VAT or duty. Jersey say this is only available to non-EU citizens, but other official sources say non-EU residents and others just the flag must be non-EU.  You'd have to get advice on that, knowing that you want to import in your wife's name to NZ eventually.

 

Gibraltar is very similar regime too I think.

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Perhaps, but we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ve found my cat1 experiences pretty easy. Plus I think a seaworthy vessel should be to that standard anyway, with a few obvious exceptions in some circumstances - like a throw line for a single gander etc. but I must say in those situations, the inspector has just ignored those items.

Gotta agree with IT here, no dramas whatsoever, and I don't think it required anything on the cat that I wouldn't take anyway.

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Just had another flick through the Jersey registration.  One of the benefits of ownership is that you are outside the EU and UK so can temporarily import your yacht into the EU for 18 months without paying VAT or duty. Jersey say this is only available to non-EU citizens, but other official sources say non-EU residents and others just the flag must be non-EU.  You'd have to get advice on that, knowing that you want to import in your wife's name to NZ eventually.

 

Gibraltar is very similar regime too I think.

 

Yeah i think that's the thing right there. If you're EU-resident OR an EU citizen then in either case You'd have to pay the VAT - would be good to get some clarity on that. Resident vs citizen thing. I think, that if you're EU resident, you have to pay the VAT if you take the boat into EU, regardless of flag.?

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Yeah i think that's the thing right there. If you're EU-resident OR an EU citizen then in either case You'd have to pay the VAT - would be good to get some clarity on that. Resident vs citizen thing. I think, that if you're EU resident, you have to pay the VAT if you take the boat into EU, regardless of flag.?

 

Lots of conflicting sources on this, but going to the actual legal text  Article 212.

 

It says that the owner must be natural person or company established (ie resident) outside the EU customs union and the yacht must be registered outside the customs union as well.  So, if the owner is an established Swiss resident and the yacht is registered outside the customs union then you should be fine - citizenship doesn't seem to matter.  Re: Jersey Register - they advertise that being on the register allows temporary importation into EU, but Jersey are in the customs union for some purpopes, so must be some fine print for the UK territories somewhere.  Gibraltar is definitely outside the Customs Union so could be another option.

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Mate just cleared using Delaware rego, No hastle or questions asked.

Nice one, what are the costs? Looks like a low registration fee but 350 usd a year to maintain a Delaware company. Is that right? No survey etc too?

 

Probably wouldn't work for DrW as he needs it in his wife's name, not a company.

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OK, Just had a dig around on the Jersey gov site. It does indeed look to be that non-EU residents can import into EU for 18months VAT free, and any EU citizen (or commonwealth citizen) is eligible as the owner. Fees appear moderate, and I'm sure the yard can provide guidance on the tonnage survey requirement. 

 

This document says it all, really. https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Travel%20and%20transport/JR30%20-%20List%20of%20Benefits%20-%20Jan%202016%20-%20POJ.pdf

 

Additionally, it appears that there is no crew qualification requirement for pleasure vessels under 24m - although it'd be likely that having an ICC and boatmasters or other basic tickets would make life easier when sailing in other EU waters unless they strictly require some other qualification.

 

https://www.gov.je/Travel/MaritimeAviation/GuidanceLegislation/Pages/Manning.aspx

 

All you folk with Cat 1 issues might want to consider the bit in bold above... many of you will be eligible...

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 It was all done on line, don't think a company was involved? only hicup was needing a note from NZ registry saying it was not registered in NZ, around $200.00 + for that bit of paper! Good for 3 years. Was done directly with Delaware (Fishing?) Authorities, not through a 3rd party. Of which there appear to be lots.

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Ok, I got in touch with the jersey registry. It seems tht it’s the best, cleanest, safest, and most respected option. It does everything we need.

 

Total cost is likely to be about £1220, for 10y registration. Including survey and representative fees.

They also require no formal qualifications to skipper.

 

Remember it’s also open to nz citizens being part of the commonwealth.

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Ok, I got in touch with the jersey registry. It seems tht it’s the best, cleanest, safest, and most respected option. It does everything we need.

 

Total cost is likely to be about £1220, for 10y registration. Including survey and representative fees.

They also require no formal qualifications to skipper.

 

Remember it’s also open to nz citizens being part of the commonwealth.

 

hey Good doctor,

I was going to get Harry Jorgensen to do my tonnage survey as he is on their 'approved' list.

that was before I found out about the issue I was going to have with producing bills of sale going back 10 years or more

Obviously not something (bills of sale) you need to worry about I gather

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When you get to it let us know what the survey involves

 

Jersey don't require a survey, just a tonnage measurement. Survey is only needed for commercil vessels. The measurer (usually an IIMS surveyor) gets out a tape measure and measures the internal volume of the boat, then uses an equation to work out the theoretical number of Tuns (large barrels) which would fit inside. This is because cargo ships have historically always been taxed on the number of tuns they can carry (their tunnage). Technically should be called a tunnage measurement, not tonnage as it's measuring volume not weight. When customs forms ask for your tonnage that's what you're supposed to enter, not your weight. Curly Hayter did ours in Auckland a few years ago forthe Jersey reg, took about half an hour, cost was minimal.

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