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Stranded boaties in 'dire' situation appeal for New Zealand's help


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6 minutes ago, Dtwo said:

Good points, but - 

- already letting superyachts in if they have $50k pre-booked work

- safety is an issue, like it or not.  I am guessing but there's a strong chance that the cruising boat's insurance may not cover them sitting in FP during cyclone season.

 

Nobody wants Covid to get established here, but we should be looking at this situation and evaluating the relevant risks rather than conflating it with planeloads of people from virus infected countries.

You hit the answer Dtwo, let these boats in if they have $50k of pre-booked work. I've no problem with that. Bear in mind these same people were complaining $1,000 was too much to go to Fiji.

But I am confused about your last point. I thought this was a humanitarian / safety issue. What has boat insurance got to do with that? If the arguement boils down to letting them in so they have valid boat insurance, tell them to piss off.

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12 minutes ago, Dtwo said:

Good points, but - 

- already letting superyachts in if they have $50k pre-booked work

- safety is an issue, like it or not.  I am guessing but there's a strong chance that the cruising boat's insurance may not cover them sitting in FP during cyclone season.

 

Nobody wants Covid to get established here, but we should be looking at this situation and evaluating the relevant risks rather than conflating it with planeloads of people from virus infected countries.

Not Judging the rights and wrongs of letting the cruisers in, but imagine the governments situation.

There is no real difference on how you arrive in law today. so that would need sorting. 

So you legislate or regulate to allow entry by sea for pleasurecraft.

Next thing a flotilla leaves China/USA/India/Australia/South America full of prospective migrants. The demand to emigrate to NZ is massive right now so it's a real prospect.

 

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Bona-fide cruisers should be allowed to come in for cyclone season from the pacific and sea time is quarantine. These are their homes we're talking about, tell them to just throw them away? I don't think so.

Plus our economy needs the money. 

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If you allow anyone in as they may feel a little hard done by then where do you stop?

 

4 hours ago, TazzyDevil said:

Next thing a flotilla leaves China/USA/India/Australia/South America full of prospective migrants. The demand to emigrate to NZ is massive right now so it's a real prospect.

Yeap, as soon as the word gets out the gates are open, stand well clear.............. then pop down the bank and ask for another few billion to pay for the result.

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8 hours ago, Dtwo said:

Good points, but - 

- already letting superyachts in if they have $50k pre-booked work

But that points to a lot of the immigration reasons for letting them in, in the first place - they have the resources to not need state help.

As others have pointed out, people complaining about $1,000 for the Fiji costs are unlikely to have that (and are unlike to be able to afford marina fee's for any kind of quarantine), and again, you run the risk of them simply not leaving (a la, probably, a lot of this years backpackers).

As a country, drawing the line where it is (if you have money to self support, yeah i guess, no money, yeah nah) does make a lot of sense.

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3 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said:

If you allow anyone in as they may feel a little hard done by then where do you stop?

 

Yeap, as soon as the word gets out the gates are open, stand well clear.............. then pop down the bank and ask for another few billion to pay for the result.

It must be a full moon or something. I am agreeing with KM.

Not so much on needing more money because of high immigration, but that, globally, NZ is looking extremely attractive, and there are a massive number of people with some loose association that will be keen to get here.

That, and I can't see how legally you can differentiate between cruisers, and anyone else arriving by boat. I don't think its too far fetched for the government to have concerns about future refugee influx, not from war but from disease and economic collapse. Most migration through history has been economic...

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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:

Most cruisers i know have a monthly income they live on. 

If any of you are considering traveling overseas in your lifetime by boat or otherwise, consider how you would like to be received elsewhere. 

What goes round comes round.

Sadly I think you’ve got an uphill struggle arguing this point with most of this crowd here.

Meanwhile my contacts in the film industry tell me 100s if not 1000s of film crew have snuck in last few weeks from Amazon, Netflix and others. Because making movies is more important than offering a safe haven to cruisers.

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I should add that my view in my previous posts in based on what I think will happen, not what I believe should happen.

And this will sound very cold, but with massive numbers of people wanting to get into NZ, a global recession and massive govt spending and debt, I do think it is legitimate to effectively choose who we let in based on how much cash / wealth they can bring with them.

I do think there is a legitimate reason for the cruisers to come here and be let in, especially this first cyclone season, being that people have made plans to cross the Pacific by a certain date, and need to be able to complete that. I just don't think the govt will do it.

I think there are legal ways to manage entry. Visa's granted for people travelling by small boat, that are already at (or apply from) a Pacific nation. This would be on a case by case basis. The paper work (and applications fees) will weed out the people doing it for convenience, and those that really need to. And do what Noumea(?) does. Require a one way air ticket out, for all arrivals by boat (or basically a bond to the govt), so there is no excuse they wont leave next winter. 

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On 4/08/2020 at 10:51 AM, TazzyDevil said:

 

So you legislate or regulate to allow entry by sea for pleasurecraft.

Next thing a flotilla leaves China/USA/India/Australia/South America full of prospective migrants. The demand to emigrate to NZ is massive right now so it's a real prospect.

 

Pleasurecraft are already allowed in - superyachts with 50k of pre-booked work.  Ma and Pa cruisers won't have 50k of pre-booked work but they would contribute, I would guess, not too much less.  Nett positive cashflow for NZ and certainly positive for Whangarei.

Before you leave your last port to come to NZ, you are required to submit a shed load of paperwork.  It isn't a case of turning up at the door.  In any case, the current situation would enable them to have a "superyacht with 50k of pre-booked work".  I'm not sure your argument is founded in reality.

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Some reality here...  NZ currently has managed isolation for about 250 people a day arriving.  Even that is stretched.

Regardless of any claims by people arriving from the Pacific, they would need to isolate.  We have no capability to oversee isolation of people outside the managed sites, let alone manage isolation of people living aboard.  A complicating factor is that, if we were to announce that the boarder was open ot cruising yachts etc, that status would be near impossible to reverse quickly - a sailor who has committed and departed for New Zealand on a 10 day to 3 week voyage from whereever could not easily be sent back if the situation or our information on the risks changed.

There are literally 1,000s of cases for economic benefit being made by people wanting to enter the country, or people wanting to bring others into the country.  Dairy NZ alone wants to bring over 1,000 workers in.

Likewise, there are literally 1,000s of cases for entry on compassionate or personal safety grounds.

Until we have a large enough infrastructure to manage more arrivals through an isolation process including the capacity to handle a sudden increase in cases in any location, type or source of inbound person, the prudent approach is to close the border tight except for those who have an inalienable right of entry ie citizens.

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13 hours ago, Fish said:

I should add that my view in my previous posts in based on what I think will happen, not what I believe should happen.

And this will sound very cold, but with massive numbers of people wanting to get into NZ, a global recession and massive govt spending and debt, I do think it is legitimate to effectively choose who we let in based on how much cash / wealth they can bring with them.

I do think there is a legitimate reason for the cruisers to come here and be let in, especially this first cyclone season, being that people have made plans to cross the Pacific by a certain date, and need to be able to complete that. I just don't think the govt will do it.

I think there are legal ways to manage entry. Visa's granted for people travelling by small boat, that are already at (or apply from) a Pacific nation. This would be on a case by case basis. The paper work (and applications fees) will weed out the people doing it for convenience, and those that really need to. And do what Noumea(?) does. Require a one way air ticket out, for all arrivals by boat (or basically a bond to the govt), so there is no excuse they wont leave next winter. 

Donkeys answer to all our Covid woes.
Covid 19 coronavirus: John Key says NZ should let in 'rich' Americans who want to build a house 
https://nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12354064

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On 4/08/2020 at 9:12 PM, Aleana said:

Sadly I think you’ve got an uphill struggle arguing this point with most of this crowd here.

Meanwhile my contacts in the film industry tell me 100s if not 1000s of film crew have snuck in last few weeks from Amazon, Netflix and others. Because making movies is more important than offering a safe haven to cruisers.

Numbers of film crew coming in is public record, no-one needs any special info to access it.

Film crew are being allowed in because 350 people coming in allows 1 billion + in work to continue. It's a net gain to NZ. Nothing more sinister than that.

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