Starting procedure

[waikiore 477]

Was intrigued to observe at very close quarters on Saturday morning at the start of the Haystack race -(sensibly shifted to Orakei)  that the main division were more than 50% over the line and despite the start boat having many bodies on board to observe no general recall was called-in fact no individual calls were made and only about three boats were honest and went back. I trust this is not where we are going in the future......

[ex Elly 258]

I thought I heard someone calling in after the start to check if they were over. Don't think they got an answer.
Easy to deal with though - General Recall. Unless they have lost the flag!

 

[Deep Purple 530]

I would only call a general recall if I cannot identify the boats. If I can then no general recall whether it's 10% or 90% of the fleet.

as far as notifying, yes if you can but in dinghies you can't. Flag goes up, comes down when last boat returns. In a fleet where the boats are required to carry vhfs then I would call the numbers once and answer queries

blowing a general recall just because a large number are over just encourages them to push too hard 

[khayyam 101]

I always know when there's going to be a general recall. It's when I've somehow managed to get a good start for once.

[El Toro 115]

Even though we had a start to forget on Clockwork, we to were bit surprised that so many were that far over and nothing was done.

Tricky start with so many boats on such a small line, with the wharf locking out the favoured side on an outgiong tide

[waikiore 477]

I realise that the start boat was un sighted for a crucial few seconds as Zephyrus went past in their face -but they already knew that the large proportion of the fleet that were OCS at 10 seconds to go couldnt magic themselves back up tide , Ex Elly the callers were from the last start non spinnaker 4 boats and one was clearly over and returned, one of the correct starters was trying to obtain clarification that it was not them that was over, committee boat not monitoring calls or naming the miscreant made things confusing.

[harrytom 697]

In the situation described. Unknown or number of vessels over, a general recall makes sense. Hmm got away with it last start lets try it again??

[Ptown 14]

We got buried because we were trying to stay behind the line in the last 10 - in a smaller boat that's just dire. Surprised a general was not called as it was so obvious early on in the sequence. We'd been delayed already so what's another 10 min?

[waikiore 477]

Exactly PTown

[TCat 3]

We were definitely quite surprised when there were no flags. We had a smaller boat trapped completely over the line down towards the pin ( i don’t recall who it was or whether they went back but they were making every effort to get down prior to the gun and they alone warranted a flag). As we were a bit early ourselves we were low  and not quite full chat on the pin - but with 10 seconds to go looking back along the line i couldnt see the start boat at all so it looked to me that the bunch to windward of us which was quite a gap to windward was well over.  So we were expecting it to be blown up and because of the positioning it wasn’t until we tacked onto port after 2-3 minutes we had any chance of seeing the boat and realised there were no flags. 

On the good news RAYC had agreed to not use that start location again. It is a crazy position with not much space- so feel sorry for akatea and whoever they had a tangle with.

[Psyche 795]

On 4/04/2022 at 11:59 AM, waikiore said:

Was intrigued to observe at very close quarters on Saturday morning at the start of the Haystack race -(sensibly shifted to Orakei)  that the main division were more than 50% over the line and despite the start boat having many bodies on board to observe no general recall was called-in fact no individual calls were made and only about three boats were honest and went back. I trust this is not where we are going in the future......

You would need to be parked on the transit to observe it accurately otherwise its a guess, I believe most competitors are sporting and would return if they were aware. On the line at the gun is surprisingly difficult mid line, usually there is a bit of sag. Maybe only 3 boats were over, but ultimately the decision for a recall lies with the race officer as competitors simply cant tell for sure when its very close.

In doubtful situations "are we over" is usually followed by very quick decision based on input from your crew, competitors sharing their feelings and finally by was there a gun? Not sure + no gun = not over.  But I wasn't there so what do I know! 

[waikiore 477]

Was on the transit 

[waikiore 477]

Once again, yesterday the Commodores cup around Rangitoto race, ( also the Westhaven Triple series final and apparently the Flap memorial) had a start where a good fifty percent were over with an outgoing tide?

 This race used to be run by the PCC but apparently they were not able, so it was the Richmond.

Firstly the start line was way too short for the combined start, then no general recall was called, again why?? There was only one start afterwards so it was not as if there was going to be a long delay for a restart? One or two honest types returned -but if this is the way Auckland keelboat racing is going??

One little Ross 680 even headed into the start on Port with the combined fleet charging at them.

The prize giving was in the pleasant surrounds of the Richmond (not the PCC as advertised) but there were apparently no prizes for the Westhaven Triple just Richmond season prizes.   

[Psyche 795]

Did you seek redress?

62.1.

 

A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by

1. an improper action or omission of the race committee, protest committee, organizing authority, equipment inspection committee or measurement committee for the event, but not by a protest committee decision when the boat was a party to the hearing

 

 

[waikiore 477]

Not our problem, we were in the clean start hence being in a great position to observe the shambles -not to mention hear the many and varied remonstrations 🤣 

[CarpeDiem 527]

There was an individual recall sounded.

They identified 6 boats over the radio, 5 came back one was scored OCS, whom I guess was not listening on channel 17 and had not self-identified that they were over...

I suspect your view of 50% of the fleet being over was not the same view from the committee boat.

[harrytom 697]

1 hour ago, Psyche said:

Did you seek redress?

62.1.

 

A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score or place in a race or series has been or may be, through no fault of her own, made significantly worse by

1. an improper action or omission of the race committee, protest committee, organizing authority, equipment inspection committee or measurement committee for the event, but not by a protest committee decision when the boat was a party to the hearing

 

 

Very hard to take on city hall.tried it once.lesson learnt God is right regardless

[waikiore 477]

Ah not many on committee boat this time, and yes we were dead in line with the ODM , to observe accurately,  many of the miscreants have privately admitted that they were OCS but not pinged so carried on .....  

[The big T 45]

To a large extent our sport is self policing, particularly at Club/ amateur levels. If so many admitted after they were over but kept on because they were not pinged, shows to me a complete lack of sportsmanship, a disregard for the honest ones and  a two finger salute to the Race Committee . I would not like it known amongst my peers that I am a blatant cheat and if I can get away with something I will. And if you feel aggrieved, yell and put up the red flag - that is what it is for.

The main problem with racing in the ditch is that there is always a favored end to the line - with about 30 boats all going for it.

The outgoing tide does not help and I would suggest a general recall would have just resulted in further chaos.

 

 

[harrytom 697]

5 hours ago, waikiore said:

Ah not many on committee boat this time, and yes we were dead in line with the ODM , to observe accurately,  many of the miscreants have privately admitted that they were OCS but not pinged so carried on .....  

Wonder why so many not racing now days. Now you know what you are up against and if like me(tried to be smart) you would get pinged.  Not just yachting,ruby forward passes,high tackles etc

Was at a radio yacht race many yrs ago,RO called contact,they were further up the track and couldnt see. It was 2 of us luffing and as r/c yachts jump it looked like contact, me and the other guy were behind our boats,niether did penalty as no contact,took it to the race committee and was told RO has final say and we were both disqualified. Rest of day sat on bank and drunk beer in protest.