Cheap Transport 71 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Is BOI to become the next area that we won't be able to anchor? Watch this space I guess... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/caulerpa-invader-seaweed-found-in-bay-of-islands-northland/TEAPHVXLHVEY5KBAPIWDSO3YRU/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Cheap Transport said: Is BOI to become the next area that we won't be able to anchor? Watch this space I guess... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/caulerpa-invader-seaweed-found-in-bay-of-islands-northland/TEAPHVXLHVEY5KBAPIWDSO3YRU/ I spoke to a specialist on this at the Boat Show today. He is AC's Biosecurity guy. Incidentally he was the guy that kicked off the issues with needing to keep The Landing open to provide biosecurity capability. He couldn't say anything on that as he's been gagged. I shook his hand anyway. I challenged him on how it got here and the allegation that yachts spread it. He believes it is most likely that it got into NZ as an aquarium plant. It is very popular in aquariums as the fish don't eat it. On shipping, he says that is unlikely, as ballast water is now filtered, both on intake and discharge. But then I asked if he'd heard of the Shiling (he had some disparaging comments) and agreed whole heartedly that the Shiling's filters almost definitely wont be working... Apparently the caulerpa that was successfully eradicated in California was only a few square meters. it was found early. The Barrier case is way too far gone... but also that was MPI's issue, not Auckland Council... Apparently the issue is the caulerpa has a toxin. So there is no predators for it in NZ, other than one small sea slug. This is why fish don't eat it. If we could get snapper to eat it we'd be onto a massive winner. Apparently kina eat it, but then become sterile. I offered that this was a great solution for kina barrens, and we should be spreading it around as much as possible. While he appreciated my logic he didn't think that was the best idea In the no-anchoring areas, I asked why they don't install mooring buoys. His first response was that was up to Auckland Transport. (silos much?) But he did say that MPI is currently in charge, but they appear to be tending to move from an emergency response to a containment approach (i.e. live with it). He acknowledged that you can't just ban anchoring long term in these areas, so providing mooring buoys would be a logic step. Then he got himself all tied in knots about how to install mooring buoys without disturbing the caulerpa (a bit academic). Slightly off topic, but the reason you are not allowed to clean a heavily fouled hull in the water is that the organisms are put under stress and release a sh*t-tonne of eggs before they die. I challenged both the AC guy and the NRC biosecurity guy on the provision of piles (tidal grids). Their issue is that they can't monitor grids. And they don't like it when people go and clean off whole mussle farms. I countered that we need to be able to clean hulls easily and providing more grids means more clean hulls. If it is known that you can't clean mussle farms, then it will be self policed, the same as undersized fish and too many set nets type issues are self-policed by members of the public. NRC is actively removing grids at the moment. Both guys agreed with my reasonings for providing more tidal grids. But it sounds like the wheels turn too slowly. I also challenged the NRC guy on the fan worm restrictions, and how long they wil keep them up for. He basically said they are permanent, they want to protect the clean harbours in the North (which is far enough). He did say if you have copper coat and can't meet the 6 and 1 rule, to contact NRC and get a dispensation so you can go cruising up north at Christmas. They would check if your boat has had a diver check recently in their register, or alternative, in my situation, I could take photos of the hull with my underwater camera, to show it is clean. I clean in the water (legally) so proving I've had new AF in 6 months, or a haulout and clean in 1 month is not possible. So anyway, MPI will be in charge of this Rawhiti response, which will be siloed and disjointed from a local focus. I would expect a committee to be established, an anchoring ban, and f*ck all else to happen. So yeah, enjoy the BoI while you can, the whole place will be closed soon, what with caulerpa, fan worm, and all the rules about playing 'statue' when dolphins swim buy. PS, sorry for the long post, thought it was all relevant while the points were fresh in my head. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 707 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Sounds a lot like if you're in the business of making rules, then when theres a problem, just make more of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,670 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 He said it would likely have come to the Bay of Islands in a boat anchor well. Great Barrier Island is only 100km from the Bay of Islands by sea and caulerpa is spread more so by boat anchors than hulls. somebody tell this guy about the last 6 months of southeasterly gales. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 316 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Banning sailing and boating in BOI, which is basically what you are doing if you ban anchoring in that area, would be a bit of a big financial hit to BOI in summertime would it not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Zozza said: Banning sailing and boating in BOI, which is basically what you are doing if you ban anchoring in that area, would be a bit of a big financial hit to BOI in summertime would it not? In this siloed structure of MPI, NRC, AC etc, I can't see the consequences of their decisions being a factor at all. It is "someone else's problem". But I doubt banning anchoring and the associated cruising would have that much of an economic impact. We bring our own accommodation and food. Unless you own the Burnsco, fuel berth or the fishing shop I doubt you'd be impacted. There would be a longer term impact on the travel lift and allied marine industry. Historically, the primary industries in Northland has been growing weed and the Department of Social Welfare. Kerikeri / Opua is a bit different compared to wider Northland, but accommodation providers and the hospo industry wont be affected by an anchoring ban. It sure wouldn't help BoI Race week though. Dare I say it, this is probably all part of a secret plan to ban boating from the BoI anyway. What with DoC's nonsense rules around playing 'statue' when Dolphins swim buy, specifically wanting to reduce the evil impact of boaties on dolphins, and Iwi introducing more fishing bans, rahui and what not, to keep the fish for themselves (around Deep Water Cove, all around Cape Brett, Black Rocks?), specifically banning all fishing accept for customary purposes, what other stake holders would actually be secretly happy of boaties got the heave-ho? (Steps back from topic before the moderators get too excited, no politics or religion was mentioned in this post, just saying) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 10 hours ago, Black Panther said: He said it would likely have come to the Bay of Islands in a boat anchor well. Great Barrier Island is only 100km from the Bay of Islands by sea and caulerpa is spread more so by boat anchors than hulls. somebody tell this guy about the last 6 months of southeasterly gales. The truth of the matter was that the expert I talked to yesterday did not know how caulerpa got to the Barrier, nor how it spreads. He was a very knowledgeable guy with substantial international experience, and not just some desk jockey (ex US govt diver, ships captain and marine researcher for 30 years). When they say it came by yachts, they are just widely guessing. That, and within the remit of their empire, yachts are the only thing they have power over. Shipping is controlled by other empires. They say it can't have come by shipping, cause all the ballast water has filters on it. Accept for the Shiling, which def wont have working filters. If you are a ships officer and you are trying to stablise your ship with ballast water, and a filter blocks, do you stop stablising your ship, go and get a replacement filter and do it properly, or do you just remove the filter and carry on meeting your owner's schedule? Noting that this guy believes it was introduced by aquarium people. You only need one short cutting, put it in a plastic bag and tie the top off. Post. But if they blamed the aquarium industry it would make them look bad for not controlling biosecurity properly. Like at the border. Boaties are all rich white pricks, so why not blame them? Far easier. Job done. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ex Machina 381 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 What’s the chance of finding some 888 wreckage nearby ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ex Machina 381 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 But seriously . Someone needs to talk to the Americans yesterday about their eradication techniques . Rather than piss around with think tanks with boaties . The horse may have bolted for barrier and the mercs but it could possibly be kept under control if action is taken very soon . I imagine it would be a game of whack-a-mole but the alternative is rampant spread whilst hang wringing think tanks are taking place . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 707 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Caulerpa sounds like it could be a significant threat but thus far my only real education on the subject has been my google searches, that's not good enough. Which agency is meant to educate and raise awareness of Caulerpa, because they are doing a pretty poor job. Most boaties are environmentally sensitive enough to take real responsibility regardless of the rules. Also it appear that fanworm program suffers the same problems, but these agencies are looking to lay blame on yachties for transporting it around but are ok with Auckland marinas having no requirement to control it. Furthermore the closure of free cleaning facilities like tidal grids, affordable haulouts etc are in total contradiction to the aim of clean boats and it makes me wonder if there is any serious leadership at all? 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ex Machina 381 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Psyche said: Caulerpa sounds like it could be a significant threat but thus far my only real education on the subject has been my google searches, that's not good enough. Which agency is meant to educate and raise awareness of Caulerpa, because they are doing a pretty poor job. Most boaties are environmentally sensitive enough to take real responsibility regardless of the rules. Also it appear that fanworm program suffers the same problems, but these agencies are looking to lay blame on yachties for transporting it around but are ok with Auckland marinas having no requirement to control it. Furthermore the closure of free cleaning facilities like tidal grids, affordable haulouts etc are in total contradiction to the aim of clean boats and it makes me wonder if there is any serious leadership at all? If a spotted bohemian gadfly ever turns up in Whangarei town basin there will be MPI folks there within hours installing pheromone traps all around the nearby suburbs . 1 year later with caulerpa ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 707 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Threat to horticulture, massive response, marine environment not so much Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Psyche said: Threat to horticulture, massive response, marine environment not so much Which agency handles threat to horticulture? Its still MPI isn't it? To be fair, I think they are hopeless there as well. They got sued by the Kiwifruit industry for the response to PSA (Industry won I believe). And who can spell M. Bovis? That response warrants its own thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K4309 346 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 There are a couple of elements about how this is spread that bug me. That MPI are just out and out blaming boaties. Lets break that down. For a boat to move it from Barrier to BoI - there are anchoring bans on Barrier. To move it to BoI, a boat must have anchored at Barrier. Sooo, are they not effective? Are they not monitoring and controlling the anchoring ban effectively? Or, has it already spread to 'open' bays at the Barrier? So that would mean that MPI's monitoring is not effective? Given that all outbreaks have been discovered by the public, how effective is MPI's monitoring? The original outbreak at Bland Bay had been there for ages, and was only discovered by a biologist who was there on holiday, i.e. completely by accident. And shipping. How do they clean their anchors and anchor chains? How many cruise ships have anchored in the BoI this season? Who actually checks that their ballast water filters are functional? They have enough problems with hull fouling and sea chests on these cruise ships. How can you clean an anchor on a ship? It hangs off the side, completely inaccessible. And the chain is captive. They don't even find dead whales on the bulb until they get into port. That is before we consider tides, currents and the weather. Oh, and the experts actually think it was introduced by the Aquarium Industry. Nothing to do with boaties. Linking back to blaming boaties. The first rule of bureaucrats isn't to get a job done. If it was, they'd be in the private sector. The first rule is to deflect. The second rule is to evade. The third rule is to confuse. So to blame boaties is a genius move from MPI. It covers their arse completely. The public will blame boaties instead of blaming MPI like they did with PSA and M. Bovis. Gold. All we need is a central lobby group to defend our interests. Like a Federation of Yacht Clubs or something? Perhaps AYBA would take over YNZ's mandate (and funding). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,056 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 1 hour ago, K4309 said: Linking back to blaming boaties. The first rule of bureaucrats isn't to get a job done. If it was, they'd be in the private sector. The first rule is to deflect. The second rule is to evade. The third rule is to confuse. So to blame boaties is a genius move from MPI. It covers their arse completely. The public will blame boaties instead of blaming MPI like they did with PSA and M. Bovis. Gold. this runs at the level of paranoia seen in various other conspiracy theories. You'll be burning effagies on the steps of Parliament next. Commercial shipping and others can be addressed directly - its a pretty small group, easily identified and well controlled. Recreational boats, not so much. The various statements from Regional Councils, MPI etc to "boaties" (a broad church that covers everyone from the owner of a 4m tinny to the Gin Palace brigade) are communications to the largest un-unified group. That group is largely ignorant of the biology, the risks and the methods of control. In fact, at best they are ignorant, at worst they are denialists who actively disregard any of those things. To be effective, communications on a broadcast scale have to be simple - "dumbed down" in the language of the cynical. So we get "Speed Kills" "Wash your Hands" "Wear a Condom" "Vaccines Save Lives" and other very simple messages to address complex human behaviour and multifactorial problems. This gets around a well documented problem, and I will paraphrase the quote above to demonstrate it. The first rule of the public isn't to do the right thing. If it was, we wouldn't need laws. The first rule is to please yourself. The second rule is to cast doubt when rule one is under threat. The third rule is to claim the moral high ground when caught out following rule one and two. So, to blame faceless government functionaries is a genius move from the public. It covers your arse completely. Heavily simplified public messages will always have gaps that can be filled with doubt, and no-one likes government officials so they are an easy target. 5 hours ago, Psyche said: Most boaties are environmentally sensitive enough to take real responsibility regardless of the rules. Demonstrably not so. Any day at any boat ramp there is evidence to the contrary. Remember, "boaties" includes jetski owners, fishing tinny owners, gin palace owners, water skiiers, the old guys who still complain they can't use copper-based antifouls or apply them on a tidal grid with impunity any more, users of marinas that have clear and obvious impacts on the environment. As I said above, its a broad church. MPI is following a well-worn path with this particular approach. Fresh-water boaties and fishers will be able to talk at length about didymo and the steps recommended to reduce the risk of its spread. The problem is different in an open ocean for sure, but reducing the risk by addressing individual behaviours is still relevant, if only to reduce the speed of spread. At this point, I'm probably in the "Its here now, and is spread by so many vectors that the best we can do is reduce risk, not eliminate" camp. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 707 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 Fair comment and its an indication of the myopic lens through which I view the world- keelboat owners who cruise the gulf You do need rules but I still think that most people want to do the right thing but they need to know what that thing is or more importantly the consequences arising from it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 671 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 Apart from Facebook MPI or from this site.How would I know there is "caulerpa" NO signs at ramps that I use,in fact wandering around "Westhaven" no signs on gates to marinas NO mention on fishing shows that Tryphena and parts of the Mercs are no anchoring. So not a major problem as not out in front of the public on TV. Dont buy the herald or any newspaper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,670 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 I would still like evidence that we're a problem, and that the steps being taken have at least a probability of working. To do that they would have to define working. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aardvarkash10 1,056 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 49 minutes ago, Black Panther said: I would still like evidence that we're a problem, and that the steps being taken have at least a probability of working. To do that they would have to define working. and problem Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Psyche 707 Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 All my info on Caulerpa is from crew and google, so I remain uneducated on the problem and the solution 🤔 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.