Insurance again

[Island Time 1,288]

6 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

I knew they would be IT. But I have not been on your boat 🤣😂

Out of curiosity what fuse did you settle on for the d2-40?

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A with 300a 

[motorb 41]

12 hours ago, Guest said:

Don't recall any of my cars having fuse in main start cable, so why have it on boat. Switching circuit does, but not heavy cable to SM.

My bmw has an explosive battery lead among other safety features.

Nope, that's not a typo! It's meant to cut power to the engine bay in event of accident to reduce fire risk....

 

Now that might be a be a bit overkill for my little boat, but at least having a starter circuit fuse probably makes sense in a lot of vessels. I've seen a few tractors and utes melt their battery leads due to things like short circuits from chafing, or even alternator issues melting cable insulation!

[K4309 395]

12 hours ago, Island Time said:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A with 300a 

So that is a $29 fuse that is small enough to sit on the battery terminal lug, doesn't get in the way and protects your boat from electrical clusterfucks?

Think I will get one. I was expecting something like an anchor winch isolator that needed to be mounted separately and would then need specific leads to and from it etc.

[waikiore 462]

I have a large Blue sea main fuse on my main cable too (mounted separately)

[Island Time 1,288]

1 hour ago, K4309 said:

So that is a $29 fuse that is small enough to sit on the battery terminal lug, doesn't get in the way and protects your boat from electrical clusterfucks?

Think I will get one. I was expecting something like an anchor winch isolator that needed to be mounted separately and would then need specific leads to and from it etc.

Thats on the start battery. On the house, as I have LifePo4, I have a class T fuse;

[Guest 129]

16 hours ago, Island Time said:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A with 300a 

Assume slow blow?

[Island Time 1,288]

33 minutes ago, Guest said:

Assume slow blow?

These. Trip curve in link. https://www.bluesea.com/products/5190/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_-_300A

[Sudden5869 17]

Very topical.
This just in,.... fire at a marina in Croatia has destroyed 22 boats and caused huge damage but no injuries.  
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/croatia-fire-medulin-boats-latest-b2545424.html

[Guest 129]

On 15/05/2024 at 2:52 PM, CarpeDiem said:

Plenty of LTO start batteries from european cars at the wreckers

 

Tried several, didn't know what I was talking about.🤔

[motorb 41]

On 16/05/2024 at 1:41 PM, Sudden5869 said:

Very topical.
This just in,.... fire at a marina in Croatia has destroyed 22 boats and caused huge damage but no injuries.  
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/croatia-fire-medulin-boats-latest-b2545424.html

guess that's one way to sort out all the surplus boats filling up marinas....

[Guest 129]

On 15/05/2024 at 2:52 PM, CarpeDiem said:

Plenty of LTO start batteries from european cars at the wreckers

 

Extensive check revealed none. $600 for 6x  yinlong LTO's with Balance board.

I'm told 14.2V target V will keep them to 95% SOC. (MyLiFePO4 setting) Must have weird V/SOC curve for that to happen.

Ummm, just looked -below. Make that 75%!  Don't have glowplugs, start battery is sad, weight is irrelevant, like tinkering and thinking on bailing marina.🙄

Will compensate VD to windlass. So 40Ahr will be 30 if I get house to 14.2V? Maybe not as LTO's will charge way faster?

 

 

[CarpeDiem 520]

I wouldn't bother with a balance board.  You're not going to reach a charge point where balancing is required.

I feel quite strongly that the LFP will reach I=term long before the LTO reaches I=0A.  So you'll end up dropping the charge voltage to prevent overcharging the LFP, that will happen long before the LTO reaches equilibrium. So I believe you will need a DC/DC to top up the LTO.  Without a DC/DC I suspect that 60% SOC is more likely - BUT that would still be way more than adequate for starting purposes and you would also be able to run the windlass for quite a few ups/downs. 

It certainly intrigues me and would be a cool project I have thought about this quite a few times and if I didn't have glow plugs I would of been all in 3 years ago when I replaced my start battery

Let me know if you want a second pair of hands to get in the way!

 

[Guest 129]

Sorry mods, please delete duplicate image. Cheers.

An actual Yinlong graph below, above generic LTO. Also erroneous above as at 14.2V it will not charge any higher.  

Your post appeared as I was hitting send!  Cool, Thanks.

[Addem 121]

Talking with my neighbour in the marina on Saturday and he casually mentioned he was delayed leaving for Fiji as his lithium batteries had swolllen up and he was waiting to get them looked at. He said he thought that there was no charge controller on them.   Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen so I asked him to disconnect his cables and perhaps move his boat away from mine. Perhaps I should also move mine away from his?

[Island Time 1,288]

1 hour ago, Addem said:

Talking with my neighbour in the marina on Saturday and he casually mentioned he was delayed leaving for Fiji as his lithium batteries had swolllen up and he was waiting to get them looked at. He said he thought that there was no charge controller on them.   Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen so I asked him to disconnect his cables and perhaps move his boat away from mine. Perhaps I should also move mine away from his?

Yep! Sounds like over charging. I've seen a couple of installs without any control in yachts that have come from offshore.. It's crazy. I re-iterate, there is, in  IMO, no such thing as a drop in lithium! And batts without BMS at all should not be used anywhere.

[Guest 129]

Went to reinsure and as I prefer full disclosure (most do) I told them verbally about my DIY Lithium install of 21/2 years ago. (I did tell them at the time by email but they glazed over)

They finally came back with Lithium or damage attributable to, written as not covered. Not obvious on the Insurance certificate, so

not likely to be picked up by marinas , hardstands etc. Fckn fiasco for my trouble. So if a marine service provider install , screwed up,  and burns down half the marina does

their insurance have to pay? I think not. So what the diff? That a service provider is more likely to get it right? They could quibble about "the standard", or lack of.

Glad I baulked on LTO's. Thats a mile too far.

I guess the average punter wouldn't know a good install from bad, unless it bit them on arse. Same applies to FLA really.

Same shite , different day.

[CarpeDiem 520]

5 hours ago, Guest said:

Went to reinsure and as I prefer full disclosure (most do) I told them verbally about my DIY Lithium install of 21/2 years ago. (I did tell them at the time by email but they glazed over)

They finally came back with Lithium or damage attributable to, written as not covered.

So are you now not covered for phones, car key remotes, drill batteries, etc etc?  Or does it explicitly only exclude the LiFePO4 install?

5 hours ago, Guest said:

So if a marine service provider install , screwed up,  and burns down half the marina does their insurance have to pay? 

Like any event, they could go after the installer and claim on the installers insurance if they could.  Same as if you have a new engine installed and the boat sinks a few months later cause the installer didn't bolt the sail drive gasket down properly...

[Guest 129]

11 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:

So are you now not covered for phones, car key remotes, drill batteries, etc etc?  Or does it explicitly only exclude the LiFePO4 install?

Like any event, they could go after the installer and claim on the installers insurance if they could.  Same as if you have a new engine installed and the boat sinks a few months later cause the installer didn't bolt the sail drive gasket down properly...

Only the LiFePO4 install.

So, there is no "standard" (AFAIK) for saildrive installation bar the manufacturers specification, so why doesn't that apply to batteries? Both can threaten life and property if they fail.

If you install a saildrive yourself, is it exempt from cover,  and any resultant loss?

How many marine installers have consequential loss insurance?

How many recreational boats have DIY installs in them that insurers don't know about?

I think I should shut up about now.

[Guest 129]

On 23/05/2024 at 3:47 PM, Addem said:

Talking with my neighbour in the marina on Saturday and he casually mentioned he was delayed leaving for Fiji as his lithium batteries had swolllen up and he was waiting to get them looked at. He said he thought that there was no charge controller on them.   Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen so I asked him to disconnect his cables and perhaps move his boat away from mine. Perhaps I should also move mine away from his?

More fool him for only "thinking there was no charge controller on them", and not knowing and having one putting one on. And, listening to the misinformation of xyz that "got away with it".

No charge controller,  ,', probably no BMS with HV/LV, temp, cutoff OMFG!  Do you cross the road with your eyes closed?

Cell manufacturers installation requirement cover all of this.

[Bad Kitty 307]

On 16/05/2024 at 1:41 PM, Sudden5869 said:

Very topical.
This just in,.... fire at a marina in Croatia has destroyed 22 boats and caused huge damage but no injuries.  
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/croatia-fire-medulin-boats-latest-b2545424.html

Jeez that's heartbreaking!